Hooknswoop 19 #26 February 7, 2005 QuoteThats a surprising statement, How did you come to that conclusion? Because aircraft must be maintained according to the manufacturers instruction, but SB's don't have to be complied with. Ask the FAA is you don't believe me. SB's are not mandatory, AD's are. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #27 February 7, 2005 QuoteWe discontinued that practice at Pitt Meadows after our Master Rigger tired of replacing cracked reserve pin covers. Has the discipline of hybrid dives as reflected on page 51 of "Parachutist" been discontinued also? Look at the foot placement of the guy on top. Rob, You mentioned argumentative and you may have a point about presentation, but I would disagree on principle. Most... well, all of us respect the manufacturers for what has been accomplished over the past ten years and I think it's safe to say that all of us are primarily concerned with safety. Chutingstar had an editorial in this month's "Skydiving Magazine" about whether this is a gear issue or a rigger education/CEU issue. An excellent point. Please understand the difficulty that people are having with a sudden change of a configuration that has worked well for quite a few years, based on a single instance that would appear to be a rigger issue. While Mirage and Airtec is to be applauded for quickly moving towards safety, sometimes we can move too quickly to a single solution - that can make it even more difficult to retract later on once more data comes in, rather than exploring several best choices. My suggestion is for everyone to hit the pause button and ascertain if, 1) this is truly a gear issue in which the SB is a long-term solution that all H/C manufacturers embrace or, 2) is a better solution - rigger training/Rigger SB. Personally, I believe we have some of the greatest minds in one location that could all get together as a panel (if you will) and determine the cause and effect of the incident, determine a selection of solutions, R&D those solutions, field test those solutions (hybrid dives, etc.), determine the best long-term solution, and jointly deploy and educate the "whys" of that solution.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #28 February 8, 2005 Quotereflected on page 51 of "Parachutist" Should read as page 21 of "Parachutist," "Step on it."Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propilot 0 #29 February 10, 2005 So in the meantime, im left with a rig in limbo. Between my custom rig not fitting well and this SB BS, I have half a mind to sell it and just get a Vector. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #30 February 10, 2005 Are you whining? Have you actually done anything about your problems?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propilot 0 #31 February 10, 2005 QuoteAre you whining? Have you actually done anything about your problems? My problems?? uhh, sure... Im working out because I was out of shape and Im also getting new shoes because my old ones were worn out. Maybe tomorrow if I'm lucky I will work on being happier and fixing my truck. wtf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricaH 0 #32 February 11, 2005 There are 2 mirage owners in our house & our rigger does not like the idea of this mod (he thinks riggers should just learn to pack correctly). After reading this discussion; we decided to wait & not get the mod done. However, I was then talking w/ a Mirage worker the other day. They say you don't have to get the s/b done, but a rigger can not pack your reserve & put their seal on it legally if the s/b is not complied with. So, basically it is required unless you're a rigger yourself & willing to illegally apply your own seal. I also brought up the idea of placing the cutter between 2 grommets. He said both SSK & Airtek have the opinion that the cutters are "bullet proof" and no harm will come to the device. I'm just needing some clarification. I don't want the mod done, but I need a repack. There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear. PMS #227 (just like the TV show) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #33 February 11, 2005 Contact the local FSDO, but according to the FAA, SB's are not mandatory (Capewell and Sunpath harness SB's are examples of this), only AD's are. Just like aircraft SB's and AD's. Some people say SB's are "Manufacturer's Instructions" and therefore are mandatory, but the FAA says they are not mandatory. In the SAID's the FAA released for both the Capewell and Sunpath harness SB's, they specifically state they are NOT mandatory. Again, call your local FSDO for clarification. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #34 February 11, 2005 The cutters have ALWAYS been placed between grommets, and have been placed on top of the PC on LOTS of rigs since the beginning. It's a non-issue. Some people are raising questions that should probably be asked directly to the manufacturer. When they get raised in a public forum like this it somtimes incites needless "gear fear" if it doesn't get an immeadiate response.VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #35 February 11, 2005 I can't think of any rigger who's opinion I would trust more than the manufacturer in a case like this, especially when it's actually two different manufacturers saying the same thing. This specific problem is caused by riggers in the field doing non-standard things. You've got a rigger in the field doing something non-standard. Something to think about. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #36 February 12, 2005 QuoteThe cutters have ALWAYS been placed between grommets... However, there is a big difference between the covered grommet of the back pack and the distributed channel of the reserve D-bag, whereby there is not a continual brass to steel contact. Quote....and have been placed on top of the PC on LOTS of rigs since the beginning. It's a non-issue. Then why aren't they still there? QuoteSome people are raising questions that should probably be asked directly to the manufacturer. When they get raised in a public forum like this it somtimes incites needless "gear fear" if it doesn't get an immeadiate response. I am one of those people. And, these questions and suggestions are being asked directly of the manufacturer on their thread. My motivation is not to create "gear fear," it's actually to reduce it. I'm more afraid of one overseas instance referred to as a "rigging error" causing the rerouting of the cutter unit within one to three months without adequate input, review, testing and acceptance industry-wide, than I am of my AAD's current configuration. For years, I have stood on the rooftops and chanted the chant, "If you can afford to skydive, you can afford an AAD." I'm afraid I can no longer do that. I've made my position clear on this and will no longer belabor the issue. I'm done with this.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #37 February 14, 2005 Quote***The cutters have ALWAYS been placed between grommets... However, there is a big difference between the covered grommet of the back pack and the distributed channel of the reserve D-bag, whereby there is not a continual brass to steel contact. I'm not sure what you're referring to as far as the "covered grommet" and "distributed channel", but the only rigs that I can think of that may not have "continual brass to steel contact" would be rigs that have molar bags. Quote***....and have been placed on top of the PC on LOTS of rigs since the beginning. It's a non-issue. Then why aren't they still there? They are, rigs built by Rigging Innovations have the cutter placed above the PC, as does (I believe) the Centaurus, Vector 1, and original Infinity. Quote***Some people are raising questions that should probably be asked directly to the manufacturer. When they get raised in a public forum like this it somtimes incites needless "gear fear" if it doesn't get an immeadiate response. I am one of those people. And, these questions and suggestions are being asked directly of the manufacturer on their thread. My motivation is not to create "gear fear," it's actually to reduce it. I'm more afraid of one overseas instance referred to as a "rigging error" causing the rerouting of the cutter unit within one to three months without adequate input, review, testing and acceptance industry-wide, than I am of my AAD's current configuration. I know that you're trying to help yourself and others better understand the situation, but unfortunately, it seems that some people only need one reason to dislike and trash a product (I'm not saying you are trashing the product, but you are giving a reason), no matter how valid it is. The location that Mirage has moved to is actually the location that Airtec would prefer all internal PC rigs to use, but compromises have been agreed upon for cosmetic reasons. That's why most current rigs have the cutter below the PC. Pop top and semi-pop top rigs are fundamentally different, allowing the cutter to be placed on the backpad. Again, the move that has been made is essentially a "no brainer" from a functional viewpoint. If they had moved it from above the PC to below it, you might have a valid concern as far as development time and compatibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #38 February 14, 2005 Quote Pop top and semi-pop top rigs are fundamentally different, allowing the cutter to be placed on the backpad. Pop top's with the pin on the back pad I understand, but how is a semi pop top different except with the order of flaps?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #39 February 14, 2005 Number of flaps the closing loop has to pass throughVSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #40 February 14, 2005 QuoteThe location that Mirage has moved to is actually the location that Airtec would prefer all internal PC rigs to use, but compromises have been agreed upon for cosmetic reasons. That's why most current rigs have the cutter below the PC. Pop top and semi-pop top rigs are fundamentally different, allowing the cutter to be placed on the backpad. Again, the move that has been made is essentially a "no brainer" from a functional viewpoint. If they had moved it from above the PC to below it, you might have a valid concern as far as development time and compatibility. Kelly, Of all the discussions and threads regarding this; for me the above quote has been the most logical. As you point out, this has never been about the product; it's been about safety regarding reason, development, testing and compatability. While not thoroughly there yet, your response gives me pause. PM sent.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #41 February 21, 2005 Do you actually spend time rigging? Or do you like opposing suggestions from the manufacturers on their equipment/ arguing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RTB 0 #42 February 21, 2005 QuoteDo you actually spend time rigging? Or do you like opposing suggestions from the manufacturers on their equipment/ arguing? I think you got it wrong. I do spend time rigging and I do not oppose suggestions from manufacturers. Why don't you go back and read what was said by who again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
