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catfishhunter

The school counseler thinks my boy has oppositional defiance

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So my boy has been having a hard time with the rules in kindergarten. His teacher sat him down and said "Kade, why aren't you following the rules like everyone else?" he says "teacher, the rules don't apply to me." I know I shouldn't have laughed when she told us but holy hell where does a 5 year old come up with that.

The school counsel said he thinks he has oppositional defiance I asked him what is that and basically he marches to his own beat. Not sure if that really is a bad thing....his report card is perfect except obeys school rules and plays well with others..(he has to be in charge) I think we are going to spend a lot of time in parent teacher conferences for the next 13 years LOL

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

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I think your boy sounds great!! I'm 31 and have been in the Army 13 years and still have moments like that where i think the rules don't apply to me ;)

He may be a real pain as a teenager but those attributes that make him defiant now may make him a hell of a leader when he gets to the real world.

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"Kade, why aren't you following the rules like everyone else?" he says "teacher, the rules don't apply to me." I know I shouldn't have laughed when she told us but holy hell where does a 5 year old come up with that.
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Chances are, he got that impression from you! :o:P

"The school counsel said he thinks he has oppositional defiance I asked him what is that and basically he marches to his own beat. Not sure if that really is a bad thing....his report card is perfect except obeys school rules and plays well with others..(he has to be in charge) I think we are going to spend a lot of time in parent teacher conferences for the next 13 years LOL"



I have mixed feelings about a lot of the labels put on kids, especially from an untrained school counselor. [:/]

Almost 20 yrs ago, my daughter was "diagnosed" (by a psychiatrist no less :S ) as having ODD. She was just plain stubborn, the most stubborn, infuriatingly, "I will cut my nose off to spite my face", type. It was only with us (Mom and Dad) that she was that way, coupled with an inability to control her temper. We called her a berserker. She turned 18 mo. and the devil possessed her. The terrible 2s didn't begin to describe it. We thought for sure by the time she became a teenager, the world would end.

But, she was an angel with those outside the family. Which showed that she wasn't out of control at all. By the time she did become a teenager, she was great! Very responsible. A leader, and not someone who would follow some duffus into a bad situation. Straight As (through hard work), never got in trouble, and able to learn from others mistakes instead of having to make them herself.

Take heart! It sounds like your son is similar in disposition. Just remember, his ability to be his own person is not a flaw, but can be his biggest strength. He probably needs lots of boundaries to curb his worst impulses until he develops some more self control, but , Hey! that's one of our jobs as parents., along with support of his idea of himself (which you seem to be doing already)! :)
lisa
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Tell your son to get a grip and learn to follow all the rules to the exact letter, or he will never be allowed to be a part of the dropzone.com community!



Unfortunately, I don't think telling is quite as effective as showing. Telling is easy. Showing is hard.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I think we are going to spend a lot of time in parent teacher conferences for the next 13 years LOL



Chip off the old block?

Does he prefer to hang with the big boys? Thinks his classmates are goofy? Likes to yuck it up in class?
He sounds great to me but most kids do. My 13 yr old is/was the same. Keep him stimulated and hang on for the ride.

jon

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So my boy has been having a hard time with the rules in kindergarten. His teacher sat him down and said "Kade, why aren't you following the rules like everyone else?" he says "teacher, the rules don't apply to me." I know I shouldn't have laughed when she told us but holy hell where does a 5 year old come up with that.

The school counsel said he thinks he has oppositional defiance I asked him what is that and basically he marches to his own beat. Not sure if that really is a bad thing....his report card is perfect except obeys school rules and plays well with others..(he has to be in charge) I think we are going to spend a lot of time in parent teacher conferences for the next 13 years LOL



Sounds like a mini me. Just make sure he keep up with the anger management and there is no reason in the world this kid couldn't run a once a year boogie some day.:D:D:D

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Just take it as a sign that paying attention to how systems work might be something that he will need extra help with. Because being oppositional shows some lack of understanding of how systems (i.e. human systems) work. Some rules, like gravity, do apply. And by learning that, he might begin to extrapolate that to himself, too.

Breaking rules for the sake of breaking them isn't necessarily a good thing. Being labeled ODD at 5 is worse :S

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Thanks -- fixed. Somehow I thought I'd read that, but I was wrong.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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He can be a handful that's for sure. He just dance's to a different beat. He isn't mean or bad, doesn't break things or bullies just doesn't listen to the teacher or obey the rules like no running no talking raising his hand to answer questions or allow others kids to be in charge

Oh and yeah I am pretty sure he inherited it from me. My reports cards all read the same.

I am actually glad they are at least taking notice and both of his families are working hard to help him find his way without breaking his spirit. He has a mixed familly dynamic, he lives with his mom and step dad, but we are all friends he has never had a Christmas (except his first one) or a birthday without all,of his familly being together.

It is pretty funny though some of the stuff his teacher calls about. Like the time he got in trouble for running because he was chasing his friends paper and refused to stop because he didn't want her to lose it. I asked her really? I'm supposed to get mad at him for that?:S

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

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Wendy, this thread really got me thinking about something I haven't dealt with in years.

I did deal with this on an official level for years, so I think I can say some things with a little authority.

1. School counselors aren't qualified to "diagnose" kids. They are not medical professionals.

2. You know your own child better than a doctor who sees this child only superficially.

3. (probably going to get a bunch of flak here. but) Putting labels on small children is rarely helpful. ODD is an example. Labeling a kid at 5 is IMO silly, they are barely out of the terrible two's. Even for the average child.

4. Are small children "worse" now than 50+ years ago? I don't think so, but the constraints are so much more on parents, teachers, and the kids themselves to "tow the line". We can't let them run loose (safely) and burn off some energy, recess has become a thing of the past, and the tv has become the new babysitter. BTW, I am not talking about parents letting their kids run amok without guidance.

5. Back to school counselors diagnosing ( and directly affecting the meds your child is forced to ingest) they only know that they want small, well-behaved. zombies to fill the anatomically incorrect chair/desk combinations.

Rant over. Thanks for listening :)
lisa
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LOL yeah he spent 10 minutes in the tunnel yesterday and he has been skiing all day today at Alta. I'm actually sitting outside the lodge as he and his step mom just went up for another run. Solid 6 hours of skiing for the two of hem today :) oh and I made the mistake of telling him he could make a tandem in south Africa when he kept saying it wasn't fair he had to be 18 to jump out of a plane. and now he won't stop asking to go there..lol

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

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Yep, it has got to be tough, nowadays, even more so than even 20 yrs ago. It bothers me no end when it it just a kid needing to be a kid. Kids need exercise to burn off the kidness. We can't blame them when they run (not running away, just not being able to keep it to a walk ;)). That's what they are programmed to do. We need to provide them with an opportunity to burn off the excess energy. Then they will be able to sit for awhile and listen and learn.

Oh, gosh, I guess the rant wasn't quite over :$:ph34r:

The challenges of child-raising are never ending! Family dynamics are even more complicated than ever before to add to the "fun"!
lisa
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I was even less clear than I thought, wasn't I. I think that labeling is worse; not labeling ODD. I.e. 5 is too young to be anything but a little kid, unless there is something so obvious going on that the child can't function (e.g. non-verbal).

My son was "diagnosed" ADD by a teacher (not even the counselor) when he was in 6th grade. I spoke to the counselor, because, frankly, it was possible that he was mildly so. Her take (a wise one) was that since his grades and conduct were pretty good (i.e. A's and B's), that we take any possible ADD symptoms as the challenge that he had to face, just as some kids can't spell, and others aren't very good at math. He's a happy successful 28-year-old now, so things have turned out just fine.

Of course that teacher, after football season was over (he was the 8th-grade coach), was one of the best teachers he ever had. There are at least two sides to every story, and that was one I'd never even considered.

And no, kids aren't worse. What they're supposed to know is changing far more rapidly than it did up to when we were kids; about the only thing that changed all that quickly was modern history and current events. With the advent of computers, the focus on standardized testing to evaluate, and all of the parental ruckus that ensues with the internet, it's not surprising that kids are confused.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Pigeon holes are for putting pigeons in .... not kids

Why do 'professionals' have to label everything?



This would come down to, in my mind, that the large majority of elementary school teachers I've had to deal with are idiots. Their world revolves around a little bubble of altered reality where they think they walk on water and are experts at all things children.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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This would come down to, in my mind, that the large majority of elementary school teachers I've had to deal with are idiots.



Pretty much. There are good teachers out there, but considering they are in a 35:1 ratio (in Denver, at least), those few spend their entire day managing the kids, not teaching them. Considering what we pay teachers, what do we expect?
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

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This would come down to, in my mind, that the large majority of elementary school teachers I've had to deal with are idiots.



Pretty much. There are good teachers out there, but considering they are in a 35:1 ratio (in Denver, at least), those few spend their entire day managing the kids, not teaching them. Considering what we pay teachers, what do we expect?



For as much time as they have off, they get paid well. If their pay rate continued for the 3 1/2 months combined vacation they have each year, then they would make well more. Having all that time off comes at a price.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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This would come down to, in my mind, that the large majority of elementary school teachers I've had to deal with are idiots.



Pretty much. There are good teachers out there, but considering they are in a 35:1 ratio (in Denver, at least), those few spend their entire day managing the kids, not teaching them. Considering what we pay teachers, what do we expect?



For as much time as they have off, they get paid well. If their pay rate continued for the 3 1/2 months combined vacation they have each year, then they would make well more. Having all that time off comes at a price.


Being a teacher, I would rather be paid baby sitting rates. I would earn substantially more if I did.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
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How's yours doing?

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This would come down to, in my mind, that the large majority of elementary school teachers I've had to deal with are idiots.



Pretty much. There are good teachers out there, but considering they are in a 35:1 ratio (in Denver, at least), those few spend their entire day managing the kids, not teaching them. Considering what we pay teachers, what do we expect?



For as much time as they have off, they get paid well. If their pay rate continued for the 3 1/2 months combined vacation they have each year, then they would make well more. Having all that time off comes at a price.


Being a teacher, I would rather be paid baby sitting rates. I would earn substantially more if I did.



Different country, different pay rates/school schedules.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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