Anger at DZ.com examined

[mardigrasbob 0]

I reluctantly logged in to this website again; this time to find more information regarding an injury at Elsinore. Once again my disgust boiled over and I had to ask myself: Why does this place cause so much consternation?
Is it the 'queen bees' who control the forums with their snarky, socially dominant behavior or is it the aggression and gossipy behavior of groups of bullies hostile to outsiders, particularly in discussions where clique members band together against what they perceive as a threat? YES!
The group dynamics are such that new members are being ignored, members or even forum staff are being attacked, it's time to do something about it. Arguments, complaining and general disruptive behavior are more symptoms of this website's clique problems. Their very nature is problematic to a skydiving web site or forum because of the perceived attitudes and treatment of members not within the circle(Wuffos) up to the point of causing a breakdown in the membership that can soon affect the success of this website. Not only is this unpleasant, it becomes expensive to the wesite in lost visitors and/or membership.
News outlets and the general public consider Dropzone.com to be representative of the parachutist community and to be the sport's definitve information source.
If you don’t confront these toxic dynamics, exclusionary behavior will become exacerbated, causing turmoil among the skydivers and members that will spill over off-line and most likely result in extreme dissention. Confronting the “clique culture” is but one suggestion that will improve the situation at least a little bit, and at least temporarily.
Here are some other ideas for dealing with some of the problems addressed here:
•Set the example for your DZ.com's members by welcoming all new members yourself.
•Address problems as they happen. Don't allow a problem to fester into an argument or attack.
•Enforce forum or site rules individually and consistently with all members.
•Ensure the forum and site rules are specific, quanitifiable and clear to all members.
•Try to involve members in events or discusions so that the membership is mixed. This encourages members to get to know each other better and helps dilute cliques.
•Be nice.
Changing the situation permanently will take persistence and a concerted effort.
Dealing with the issues head-on will prevent problems from getting worse and affecting Dropzone.com's web site and forums. Leadership is respected and expected!

[normiss 619]

If you're that unhappy here...why are you here?
Why go to all the trouble to post that you basically don't like it here?


I always find it surprising how much people think this forum means to the outside world.

[DangerRoo 0]

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If you're that unhappy here...why are you here?
Why go to all the trouble to post that you basically don't like it here?


I always find it surprising how much people think this forum means to the outside world.

+ 1

(I.C.D#2 VP)
""I'm good with my purple penis straw" ~sky mama

[catfishhunter 1]

It is an Internet forum...they are all the same. Either learn to ignore the jackasses or don't bother logging in as worrying about some punk behind a keyboard is really stupid don't ya think?

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[riddler 0]

Sounds like an opportunity to create your very own skydiving website, complete with newsgroup, contributing articles, dropzone and boogie information, et al. But with the focus on welcome feelings and a positive outlook! As the Dali Lama recently said, our main focus should be on creating positive thinking and directing loving thoughts to the world. Or something to that effect.

Skydiving posts with pink bunnies in fields of clover with sunny rainbows overhead. Sounds awesome! I'm not being sarcastic - I would love to be on such a website.

Except, your main users are skydivers. They don't exactly radiate sunshine out of their assholes. In fact, some of them are just plain mean, if you know what I mean.

Maybe you're in the wrong sport to begin with?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Nataly 38]

DZ.com is a microcosm... If you don't like it here, welcome to "reality": cliques exist in the real world - they exist here. Some people aren't nice in the real world - some people aren't nice here... Rules are broken in the real world - rules are broken here... Some people are (un)popular in the real world - some people are "(un)popular" here.

I think it's a bit OTT to say that whuffos will be affected by things posted on here... This site only attracts skydivers except for extremely rare exceptions... And I would go further - this site only attracts *some* skydivers... It's a niche within a niche!!! A sub-sub-culture of very few individuals... It's neither representative of skydivers in general, nor is it how non-skydivers "perceive" skydivers, since there is almost no reason at all that a whuffo would be interested in this site!!!

Not saying it can't improve, just thinking to myself it's surprising how much you seem to be upset over so little...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[ryoder 1,380]

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As the Dali Lama recently said, our main focus should be on creating positive thinking and directing loving thoughts to the world.

Or to put it in Oddball-speak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vypGPc2LVFo

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Skydiving posts with pink bunnies in fields of clover with sunny rainbows overhead. Sounds awesome! I'm not being sarcastic - I would love to be on such a website.

My contribution:

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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It is an Internet forum...they are all the same. Either learn to ignore the jackasses or don't bother logging in as worrying about some punk behind a keyboard is really stupid don't ya think?

I prefer to hide behind a cryptic avatar . . . oops!

[airtwardo 6]

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It is an Internet forum...they are all the same. Either learn to ignore the jackasses or don't bother logging in as worrying about some punk behind a keyboard is really stupid don't ya think?

I prefer to hide behind a cryptic avatar . . . oops!

People that do that MUST have something to hide...please stop it!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[riddler 0]

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I prefer to hide behind a cryptic avatar

He said "Cryptic Avatar", not "Avatar from the Crypt".

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[airtwardo 6]

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I prefer to hide behind a cryptic avatar

He said "Cryptic Avatar", not "Avatar from the Crypt".

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Squeak 17]

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DZ.com is a microcosm... If you don't like it here, welcome to "reality": cliques exist in the real world - they exist here. Some people aren't nice in the real world - some people aren't nice here... Rules are broken in the real world - rules are broken here... Some people are (un)popular in the real world - some people are "(un)popular" here.

I think it's a bit OTT to say that whuffos will be affected by things posted on here...

Not saying it can't improve, just thinking to myself it's surprising how much you seem to be upset over so little...

There quite a few people who post on here who are not skydivers.
Moreover if it has a negative effect (and it obviously does, as the OP is not the 1st person to make a post such as his) on skydivers it will most certainly have a negative effect on visiting non jumpers, and prospective jumpers. Also many of the negative aspects of this "reality" you speak of are overly exaggerated on here. The vast majority of BS that is posted here by keyboard cowboys/girls, does not get an airing in REAL reality, REAL reality as more concrete consequences. .

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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...this site only attracts *some* skydivers... It's a niche within a niche!!!...

Wow! That almost sounds like a line out of Point Break!!

[airtwardo 6]

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...this site only attracts *some* skydivers... It's a niche within a niche!!!...

Wow! That almost sounds like a line out of Point Break!!

THAT'S FUNNY!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[nigel99 143]

I agree with the general premise of your post. My attitude to dz.com changed when I started putting faces to posters and meeting them in person.

A bit of empathy goes along way.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

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If you're that unhappy here...why are you here?
Why go to all the trouble to post that you basically don't like it here?


I always find it surprising how much people think this forum means to the outside world.

+ 1

As far as complaint posts go, it not a bad one at all.
The OP comments on aspects of the site that in their opinion could do with improving and cites reasons why. then they offer suggestions on a possible way to begin said improvements. Whilst at no time did they get malicious, or mean spirited.
All in all I'd say it's one of the better posts in this sub-forum

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[theplummeter 14]

There are some wonderful, talented, experienced and clever people that enjoy posting here. Being able to draw on their experience is a great help. It's also nice getting the perspective of people with similar experience to you when you are thinking about trying gear that you can't find at your dropzone, or are traveling to a new dropzone or boogie.

However, I think that the original poster has a valid point that all of the wonderful things offered here often get drowned out by arguments that no one would perpetuate in person.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

That's a lot of words. Some big ones too. I could give a shit what the outside world thinks of skydiving. The tandem industry has already fucked things up and brought in the undesirables, read lawsuit happy wuffos. We don't need everyone in this sport.

[Andy9o8 0]

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lawsuit happy wuffos.

Where?

[oldwomanc6 38]

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I agree with the general premise of your post. My attitude to dz.com changed when I started putting faces to posters and meeting them in person.

Mine went long way when I started putting faces to the posts.
with an extra
A bit of empathy goes along way.

That is true, but I wonder what forum the OP is really looking at?
The SC is downright nasty at times. The Incident forum sometimes forgets what its purpose really is (not by the mods, but those who post there). The General Skydiving forum sometimes forgets that putting down new jumpers is not in the best interest of the sport. And so forth.....

To the OP:
Most of us don't frequent (or post, anyway in) all the forums, so when a complaint thread is started in BF that is supposed to indict the whole of Dz.com, it seems a little silly. The Bf exists only to provide entertainment. Most of the posters are, or have been at one time, jumpers, so have that slant to life in general.

As it has been pointed out, This is no different that any given population base. There are those that like each other, those that don't, some who tolerate each other and those who don't. Those who form a separate group of "closer bonding" (cliques) just like in real life. We're grown-ups here (at least I hope so )

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[skymama 35]

Just so you know, all of the Moderators are volunteers. We do our best to stay up on things, but we also have real jobs, families, homes to take care of and of course skydiving and other hobbies that also takes up our time. Sangiro put together a staff of people from different time zones so we could have more chances of someone always being online, but sometimes that doesn't always happen. In addition, even if we are online, we might not have powers in the forums you're upset about.

If you (or anyone) sees a specific issue that needs to be addressed, send a friendly pm to a Mod with a link so we can look at it quickly and tend to it. We really do appreciate the help! We might not agree with your assessment as to what needs to be done, and sometimes we take the issue to the Team Room to discuss a matter as a group before dealing with it, but we do read your pm's and take things into consideration. I've even had people's views change my mind before!

And as for welcoming people; have you not seen the Intros forum? Everyone gets welcomed if they post there!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[BIGUN 1,042]

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They don't exactly radiate sunshine out of their assholes.

There's a few that.. well, let's just say we're talking fluorescent rainbows.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Conundrum 1]

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I reluctantly logged in to this website again; this time to find more information regarding an injury at Elsinore. Once again my disgust boiled over and I had to ask myself: Why does this place cause so much consternation?
Is it the 'queen bees' who control the forums with their snarky, socially dominant behavior or is it the aggression and gossipy behavior of groups of bullies hostile to outsiders, particularly in discussions where clique members band together against what they perceive as a threat? YES!
The group dynamics are such that new members are being ignored, members or even forum staff are being attacked, it's time to do something about it. Arguments, complaining and general disruptive behavior are more symptoms of this website's clique problems. Their very nature is problematic to a skydiving web site or forum because of the perceived attitudes and treatment of members not within the circle(Wuffos) up to the point of causing a breakdown in the membership that can soon affect the success of this website. Not only is this unpleasant, it becomes expensive to the wesite in lost visitors and/or membership.
News outlets and the general public consider Dropzone.com to be representative of the parachutist community and to be the sport's definitve information source.
If you don’t confront these toxic dynamics, exclusionary behavior will become exacerbated, causing turmoil among the skydivers and members that will spill over off-line and most likely result in extreme dissention. Confronting the “clique culture” is but one suggestion that will improve the situation at least a little bit, and at least temporarily.
Here are some other ideas for dealing with some of the problems addressed here:
•Set the example for your DZ.com's members by welcoming all new members yourself.
•Address problems as they happen. Don't allow a problem to fester into an argument or attack.
•Enforce forum or site rules individually and consistently with all members.
•Ensure the forum and site rules are specific, quanitifiable and clear to all members.
•Try to involve members in events or discusions so that the membership is mixed. This encourages members to get to know each other better and helps dilute cliques.
•Be nice.
Changing the situation permanently will take persistence and a concerted effort.
Dealing with the issues head-on will prevent problems from getting worse and affecting Dropzone.com's web site and forums. Leadership is respected and expected!

This place would be boring as fuck if there wasn't anger and drama. Just like any other forum. If you're looking for sunshine and happiness you might want to check out www.christianmingle.com

[BlindBrick 0]

You know, I've been hearing the same complaints and dire predictions on here for ove a decade and the site hasn't imploded yet. Yes dz.com has issues, but they are far from terminal!

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[shropshire 0]

Sub-terminal drama can be fun too.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome