Remster 24 #26 March 21, 2012 Quote I'm open to the possibility of it being a hoax, Paul, please turn your access pass to the internets in. Your browsing privileges have been revoked. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #27 March 21, 2012 I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone on a skydiving forum thought that was real for even one second. Interested to get your opinions on this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3St1GgoHQ I bet a lot of people on this forum are now wondering where they can buy those nifty shoes. __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #28 March 22, 2012 Quote Quote I'm open to the possibility of it being a hoax, Paul, please turn your access pass to the internets in. Your browsing privileges have been revoked. And yet the concept behind it is sound. There's no fundamental reason it couldn't be real. Nothing in the project is all that far off of what could be done. I'll wager somebody builds a real one before, say, Jeb "lands" with his wing suit project.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #29 March 22, 2012 Quote And yet the concept behind it is sound. There's no fundamental reason it couldn't be real. Nothing in the project is all that far off of what could be done. agreed. -SPACE- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #30 March 22, 2012 QuoteAnd yet the concept behind it is sound. Most of the concept is fairly sound, but there are still some holes. Simply moving wings up and down would not make a bird fly, the same way that simply moving your arms up and down in a pool will not make you tread water. The motion required is MUCH more complex than those uni-axial motors can create, I think.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #31 March 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteAnd yet the concept behind it is sound. Most of the concept is fairly sound, but there are still some holes. Simply moving wings up and down would not make a bird fly, the same way that simply moving your arms up and down in a pool will not make you tread water. The motion required is MUCH more complex than those uni-axial motors can create, I think. Did you see the video on his web site that showed a mechanism doing exactly that under computer control by another individual? It's there.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #32 March 22, 2012 QuoteDid you see the video on his web site that showed a mechanism doing exactly that under computer control by another individual? It's there. No, I was making assumptions based on what little I had seen. Guess I should check the rest out.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,329 #33 March 22, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I'm open to the possibility of it being a hoax, Paul, please turn your access pass to the internets in. Your browsing privileges have been revoked. And yet the concept behind it is sound. There's no fundamental reason it couldn't be real. Nothing in the project is all that far off of what could be done. I'll wager somebody builds a real one before, say, Jeb "lands" with his wing suit project. Well, the technology for an "exo-skeleton" is very primative, but there. They are working on it for paralyzed people and soldiers. The technology for the motors and batteries is advancing very rapidly (that was mentioned on the Jamie Hyneman site). The stuff they are doing, particularly with R/C helicopters is nothing short of amazing. But ornithopters are not practical. The surface control necessary for them to work is way too complex. You have to be able to lift the wing up and forward in a configuration for minimum drag, then reconfigure for maximum lift and move it down and back. The "sensing ability" and feedback/control circuitry is well beyond any current technology. Getting "strap on" wings and a small motor is certainly doable, Ultralights are pretty common. Powered hang gliders are available too. But I'd bet pretty heavily that we won't see a one-man ornithopter in our lifetimes. That doesn't negate your comment about it happening before someone successfully lands a wingsuit, however. Edit to add: I was composing when you wrote about successful wing movement. It's doable to a certain degree. But in an ornithopter big enough to carry a person, there will be no room for inefficiencies. Rememeber, as size increases, weight cubes. That's why the Condor is the biggest bird. They simply cannot get any bigger and fly with the capabilites available to them (muscle power, bone strength, ect.)"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dthames 0 #34 March 22, 2012 QuoteI am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone on a skydiving forum thought that was real for even one second. Interested to get your opinions on this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3St1GgoHQ I bet a lot of people on this forum are now wondering where they can buy those nifty shoes. I have seen one of those lizards do it. With perfect imagination, visualization, an 88 pound girlfriend with large fast feet could do it……I think.Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #35 March 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteI am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone on a skydiving forum thought that was real for even one second. Interested to get your opinions on this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3St1GgoHQ I bet a lot of people on this forum are now wondering where they can buy those nifty shoes. I have seen one of those lizards do it. With perfect imagination, visualization, an 88 pound girlfriend with large fast feet could do it……I think. We all know that very small rocks will float, so you may be right. __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,362 #36 March 22, 2012 I surprised no one has brought this up; It was only a couple years ago; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E77j1imdhQ"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #37 March 22, 2012 QuoteAnd yet the concept behind it is sound. There's no fundamental reason it couldn't be real. Nothing in the project is all that far off of what could be done. Conceptually, it may be sound, but physically, it is not. Quote"I'm tempted to play along, but unfortunately from a physical perspective it's completely unrealistic," Reichert told The Huffington Post in an email. "Given an estimated total weight of 100 kg, a wing area of 9 square meters, maximum lift coefficient of 1.0, and an air density of 1.22 kilograms per cubic meter...the vehicle would have to travel at least 49 kilometers per hour to stay airborne." And if that doesn't convince you, the entire character in the video is a fake. QuoteA LinkedIn page for Jarno Smeets, which is linked from Smeets’ website, says that he worked at Pailton Steering Systems from 2008 to 2010. John Nollett, the group managing director for Pailton Engineering Limited, said there is no record of anyone by such a name. The university’s student records staff searched their full digital records database, which contains students’ names who attended from 1986 to the present. They told Wired they found only one entry for anyone by the last name of Smeets: Alexandra Smeets, who attended from 1999 to 2000. No record for Jarno Smeets could be found. Of course, I'm not happy to report this, because I would love for it to be true! Maybe I should just learn to buy into other's delusions. I think I would be happier for longer periods of time.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #38 March 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteAnd yet the concept behind it is sound. There's no fundamental reason it couldn't be real. Nothing in the project is all that far off of what could be done. Conceptually, it may be sound, but physically, it is not. Quote"I'm tempted to play along, but unfortunately from a physical perspective it's completely unrealistic," Reichert told The Huffington Post in an email. "Given an estimated total weight of 100 kg, a wing area of 9 square meters, maximum lift coefficient of 1.0, and an air density of 1.22 kilograms per cubic meter...the vehicle would have to travel at least 49 kilometers per hour to stay airborne." Actually, that's wrong. The vehicle, doesn't have to travel that fast; the wings do. That's a fundamental difference between a fixed wing aircraft and a rotary or ornithopter. Again, I'm not saying the video is 100% real. What I'm saying and have since my first post is there's a possibility the video could be real because there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the concept.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #39 March 22, 2012 >And yet the concept behind it is sound. The concept the video depicted was not. >I'll wager somebody builds a real one before, say, Jeb "lands" with his wing suit project. It's already been done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmzEKRSlA2k But was nothing like the video shown. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #40 March 22, 2012 QuoteI'm tempted to play along, but unfortunately from a physical perspective it's completely unrealistic," Reichert told The Huffington Post in an email. "Given an estimated total weight of 100 kg, a wing area of 9 square meters, maximum lift coefficient of 1.0, and an air density of 1.22 kilograms per cubic meter...the vehicle would have to travel at least 49 kilometers per hour to stay airborne." . that is what gave it away for me when I first saw the video. the mechanism concept he designed was legit. The execution was not. But still, that is not what we should be focusing on here. Everyone, even us, is talking about it. Smeets won. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #41 March 22, 2012 I'm not sure how being exposed as a fraud is "winning"____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #42 March 22, 2012 QuoteIt's already been done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmzEKRSlA2k But was nothing like the video shown. You're right. That's nothing like what's being shown in the video mainly because it relies completely on human horsepower to drive it. It's not even a question that it would be physically impossible to have human arms supplying the flapping power; there simply isn't enough power there to allow that to happen. However, if you allow for the idea of a powered set of wings, it immediately opens up this idea as a possibility even with a considerably smaller set of wings similar to those shown in the video in question. To me, this entire idea is far more feasible than any one of a number of single person flying contraptions, like the twin ducted fan thing. In particular because a loss of primary power in this device doesn't nessasarily doom the pilot at altitudes below BRS deployment minimums.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ferrarimv 0 #43 March 22, 2012 wow...looked pretty cool @ 1st and got excited...but then found out that it was FAKE...lol :::Skydive - Preacher ::: ~~Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God~~ (Jn3:3) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #44 March 22, 2012 IMHO his site was made to generate traffic and provide him some profit out of this hoax. Dutch state media reported the guy disappeared after publishing this video. There were several hoaxes previously published in the Netherlands, but all of them turn to be a product of marketing & video editing skills and indeed no-brains, no-engineering at all. Windsurfing is very popular sport overhere and this “device” looks to me like modified windsurfing sail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #45 March 22, 2012 QuoteI'm not sure how being exposed as a fraud is "winning" There is no indication that the makers were stupid enough to assume they would be remembered as aeronautic heros by being the first to make a practical ultralight ornithopter. His/the makers goal was to make something amazing and emotive that people thought was "real". (If not that the goal was viral marketing though I do not see anything but vague references to wiimotes, slingshot kites, or HTC smartphones ) Don't be fooled by a notion of superiority in being able to spot a fake. It still was linked enough so that you watched it without looking for it, thought about it, and talked about it on the internet. Make no mistake, he won. -SPACE- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #46 March 22, 2012 Quote IMHO his site was made to generate traffic and provide him some profit out of this hoax. True, but I never saw any annoying banner adds like there are here. Quote Dutch state media reported the guy disappeared after publishing this video. There were several hoaxes previously published in the Netherlands, but all of them turn to be a product of marketing & video editing skills and indeed no-brains, no-engineering at all. I saw a good bit of aeronautic and engineering authenticity in the designs he published. Though I knew from the beginning it was fake, I could not begin to imagine why (if not explicitly for viral marketing) someone would spend that much time on the hoax. But then i remembered half of the internet thinks the Apollo Project was filmed in the SW American desert. Quote Windsurfing is very popular sport overhere and this “device” looks to me like modified windsurfing sail. He admits that he frankensteined an old slingshot surf kite from the beginning. If you read his site you would see that his "project" supposedly has been in the works for a long time, and the ornithopter wing mechanics are pretty cool, even though the numbers do not add up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #47 March 22, 2012 you are the one making the mistake, as I called it a likely hoax from the first viewing and said so in the discussion before even wandering into DZ.com to see if it was being discussed here as well. the only thing he "won" was a few minutes of admiration from the clueless and the ignorant. Apart from a few minutes poking around his site to confirm my suspicions he gained nothing.. but hey if page view counts (without banner ads) as "winning" for you enjoy... Charlie Sheen is doing ALOT better IMO.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #48 March 22, 2012 Quote you are the one making the mistake, as I called it a likely hoax from the first viewing and said so in the discussion before even wandering into DZ.com to see if it was being discussed here as well. the only thing he "won" was a few minutes of admiration from the clueless and the ignorant. Apart from a few minutes poking around his site to confirm my suspicions he gained nothing.. but hey if page view counts (without banner ads) as "winning" for you enjoy... Charlie Sheen is doing ALOT better IMO. "you are the one making the mistake, as I called it a likely hoax from the first viewing and said so in the discussion before" And yet here you are, online, still talking about him in front of everyone. Find me a better troll than this guy. (If confused, Here is what a troll is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #49 March 22, 2012 The guy has just revealed his true identity on Dutch national TV. He said he spent more then 8 months creating this hoax. He's profession is... Movie-maker. P.s. Honey cancel all meetings for the comming year I'm gonna create a hoax. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,362 #50 March 23, 2012 http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/03/22/dutch-artist-admits-faking-viral-human-bird-wings-video/ However, it is on Fox, so now I'm thinking it may be real."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites