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danger29

Cypres2 or Vigil

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>Is this true, can anyone shead any light on this and if so has the problem been fixed?

Per Jo, several of the current problems with the Vigil misfiring will be fixed in the Vigil 3.

>what if I'm doing a head down, or something that will cause me to
>break my neck if a reserve deploys.

That can indeed happen - but can happen with any AAD, not just a Vigil. Also keep in mind that your rig may not survive the experience; reserves and harnesses are not tested at head-down speeds.

>I was tempted to call and cancel my order and instead get a cypres 2.

I use Cypreses because in my experience they misfire less often. But using any of the popular AAD's (Vigil, Argus, Cypres) is still better protection than going without.

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Per Jo, several of the current problems with the Vigil misfiring will be fixed in the Vigil 3.



By the way, this is one of the major differences between Cypres and Vigil. If Cypresses are flawed in some way they will be fixed with the next service, or by recalling them immediately if it is a urgent matter. And it 's all done without additional charges, because the lifetime is guaranteed and not only promised. If you weren't happy with your Vigil 1 you are invited to buy a Vigil 2. If you are not happy with your Vigil 2 you are invited to buy a Vigil 3.

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Per Jo, several of the current problems with the Vigil misfiring will be fixed in the Vigil 3.



By the way, this is one of the major differences between Cypres and Vigil. If Cypresses are flawed in some way they will be fixed with the next service, or by recalling them immediately if it is a urgent matter. And it 's all done without additional charges, because the lifetime is guaranteed and not only promised. If you weren't happy with your Vigil 1 you are invited to buy a Vigil 2. If you are not happy with your Vigil 2 you are invited to buy a Vigil 3.



just get a cypres2 and be done with it; for the next 12 1/2yrs!
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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I just bougt a new rig (wings container, saffire 2 and smart reserve) with a vigil 2. I have never used a Vigil before always a cypres, but I liked the price, I liked the features (free fall speed, jump log etc) not to mention no MANDITORY (but voluntary) maintence. I am however a little worried as I hear that dragging your rig on the ground can cause a deployment, slamming your trunk etc... Im not to worried about these because I will just turn it off when Im done jumping and make sure I don't drag my rig. I am however worried about pre-mature deployment (cutting of the reserve loop) while in freefall, what if I'm doing a head down, or something that will cause me to break my neck if a reserve deploys. I hear vigils have been known to do that. Is this true, can anyone shead any light on this and if so has the problem been fixed? what has been done to fix this. I was tempted to call and cancel my order and instead get a cypres 2. Can someone calm my worries?



I never like to get into the 'this gear is better than that gear' discussions, because let's face it - most skydiving gear these days is pretty darn good.

So in the past, I would have been likely to say 'You're fine with the Vigil, so long as you understand that (generally-speaking) when a Vigil senses a problem of any sort, it fires, whereas a Cypres (or Argus) is much less 'trigger-happy'. This just means turning it off before leaving the DZ, etc.

However, with the recent spat of multiple Vigils firing when the aircraft door comes open (see the Incidents forum) has changed my opinion on the matter. I'd now say 'send it back and get a Cypres or Argus.' Reason being, if Vigils are firing "as-designed" in instances like that, it's not just your life that could be affected - it's yours, mine, and everyone else on that plane.

I'm fine with someone's decision affecting their own safety. But when a design flaw means that it could easily f*ck over an entire plane-load of people, and the manufacturer says "It works as designed - case closed," that leaves a VERY bad taste in my mouth.

At this point, I'm recommending my friends steer clear of Vigils. If they're as technologically-advanced as they claim, it makes no sense that AAD (the manufacturer) won't acknowledge a design flaw and release a firmware update.
Signatures are the new black.

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I couldn't agree more. When a product is designed to cut closing loops in the plane, its a problem. Also, Vigil has 3 modes, a log book, and several other features. What this means to me is more complex software, hence more chance of software malfunction. My Neptune is what I use for logging because it has these features, but because of these features, I would never use it as my primary alt. For that I have a galaxy. Likewise, I want my AAD to do one thing. Think and fire when needed, not log my jumps.
Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

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Just thought id add to this thread with the email response I got regarding the Vigil fires.

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The 2 Vigils (1 Vigil I and 1 Vigil II) worked correctly; exactly the same way based on its conception.

The activation was due to the sudden accidental fast opening of the door while the plane was climbing.
The pressure variation was just high enough to create a virtual start of freefall.

The Vigil becomes active once you have reached min 150 ft in a max time of 32 sec. The Vigil is acting also faster than other AAD.

This has already saved many lives certainly linked to low cutaways.

It is the first time such an exceptional incident happens with the more than 14.000 units in the field.

We don’t have a specific report but just added an extra sentence in our manual (see page 21) version II.0.3. (will be available in the coming days).

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I've also been responded to privately regarding the recent Vigil misfires. It seems that more is going on than just "The device worked as designed.", although I'm not exactly sure what, yet. I did suggest to them that it would do a lot more to help their image to come out in public and say something to that effect - even if the current statement is just that they're working on the problem.

I also tire of their statements like "Vigil is acting also faster than other AADs." This is a spurious statement. I presume they're stating this because they think it makes Vigil sound superior to other devices, however, there's no statistical or other data I've seen to back up the premise that operating faster than CYPRES, Argus, Astra, etc produces better or more consistent results in accordance with a typical user's requirements. Given that Vigil seems to have developed a reputation for being trigger happy, whether well deserved or not, telling everyone that it fires off your reserve faster than anyone else would seem to me to be a bad marketing move just reinforcing that reputation, but maybe that's just me.

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Thanks for the suggestion brettski :)

Just to expound a bit on what you already stated;

Vigil has started the process of field testing a number of Vigil's in an attempt to recreate the incident of the units firing in the plane. I know that the first run of this battery of tests has been carried out but I don't yet have the actual data from the tests. As with all field testing, it's impossible to tell how long it may be before we have the answers that we're looking for. That being said, I'll do my best to post results and official statements as quickly as possible so that everyone has access to them.

If anyone has any questions or concerns please feel free to PM me. I can't promise that I will have the information to answer your questions yet but I'm most happy to try!

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Vigil has started the process of field testing a number of Vigil's in an attempt to recreate the incident of the units firing in the plane.



As a Vigil owner this makes me feel mcuh better.


Why would they be testing them? Didn't they say the device worked as designed? ;)

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