Dealing with off-landings in a city / urban environment

[pchapman 261]

Recently a thread was started in General Skydiving Discussions about whether one would cutaway if faced with landing in a place like a city, when flying a fast main but more docile reserve. (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4005890)


It brings up the issue of landing within a city, what ones's choices would be, whether one is under a fast or slow main, or any reserve.

Depending where one jumps, it may or may not be much of an issue. I'm only likely to have it happen if at a boogie some where, or on a demo gone wrong.

Anyone got good video of landing in an urban area that would be educational for others?

Any comments on landing in urban areas?

I'm not really invested in this issue, but it is one which I don't really recall seeing threads about.


There is a decent video on youtube that I've shown in canopy control classes, showing someone landing on a tight residential street in Deland, beside trees. It looked like wind shear may have been a factor in the rough landing.

Just as an example of the risk, over a year ago 'Crash' Moore (who I had known) died when misjudging an off-landing in Deland, even though he had apparently planned to land on a grassy median of a regional road, a relatively wide open area.

Similar to what I wrote in the other thread:

Some municipal environments will be worse than others, with a lot depending on the design of the neighbourhood. One wants to open high and have a lot of choice of landing area, but that's not always possible.

I'd be looking for a municipal park, or a commercial area with larger flat roofs. In purely residential areas, some with above ground hydro will have lines across the streets every 50'. Large backyards may be good, but smaller backyards can also suffer from phone lines and fences every 50'. Peaked roofs of closely spaced homes may be tough to land on and not fall off. So what's left to land on? Medium to large trees I guess. I've done it OK with a slow paraglider, but it would be a little sporty with a fast canopy.

If one were over a neighbourhood without wires closely spaced across all the streets, plus large lots and wide suburban streets, that would open up the landing options a lot.

The situation is one where one's skill in "putting it down" in tight places may be rewarded.

[JohnRich 4]

If such areas exist in the vicinity of the regular drop zone, then the "out" locations should be well-marked on an aerial photo. Jumpers should study this, and be familiar with where those safe locations are. If they wait until they have a bad spot to figure out where to land, that's too late. They should already know where they need to go, at every stage of their return flight, if they don't make it home.

[airtwardo 6]

Don't have a video but he's a pic of me having what's about to be an urban landing on a round reserve!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[stratostar 5]

That reserve is not looking to round...

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

That reserve is not looking to round...

That's a 252 main...got my hands on the capewells...suckin in the smoke!

There I was~ needle on my altimeter was right between 'Oh Shit' and 'You're Fucked'...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[matthewcline 0]

WOW before the invention of color!

So how many times have you ridden Plan B to the Demo?

Me, 1. and I landed on the 50! Standing up and scored a .5!

Don't ask how I got to do that though, I had to do good after I screwed up to put me self there.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[sinjin 0]

first thing i do when landing in an unknown environment after the canopy open is take my goggles/sunglasses off !!! it will help you see powerlines and little details better.

carry your phone with you on the first jump of the day, really strong upper wind days, and night jumps if not all the time.

if you spot a wire late, go parallel,, take a down wind or cross wind over a low turn.

trees are really not bad options if outs are zero. take the middle of the tree and flare. it works.

dont let life pass you by

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

WOW before the invention of color!

So how many times have you ridden Plan B to the Demo?

Me, 1. and I landed on the 50! Standing up and scored a .5!

Don't ask how I got to do that though, I had to do good after I screwed up to put me self there.

Matt

I've taken the evil twin to the party 5 times....

On our demo rigs the main and reserve look the same, so often no one knows anything except that some of the ground crew took off running!

Only time it was really hairy was a night pyro jump, I burned up the main. . .literally!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[stratostar 5]

Quote

got my hands on the capewells...suckin in the smoke!

open dust covers, thumbs in rings, cough cough, eyes on reserve handle..... who's bright idea was it to wear this god*^$#^% smoke.....

Kiddie's today don't have a clue.....

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Quote

got my hands on the capewells...suckin in the smoke!

open dust covers, thumbs in rings, cough cough, eyes on reserve handle..... who's bright idea was it to wear this god*^$#^% smoke.....

Kiddie's today don't have a clue.....

You know it brother!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Zymurdoo 0]

Here is my best urban landing. Notice it is going the wrong way on a one way street.

Blue Skies, Soft Docks and Happy Landings!
CWR #23
(It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!)

[mr_prick 0]

this one looks ok...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cqDsuIGaFw

[pchapman 261]

Quote

this one looks ok...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cqDsuIGaFw

Nice. Not everyone gets to (literally) fly around skyscrapers in Dubai.

[danornan 64]

Preventing a problem before it occurs is way better.... I buy my main and reserve anticipating just such a landing on a hot, no wind day landing downwind.

I've never wanted any more excitement after my parachute opens. I don't swoop. Unfortunately, even a large canopy can get caught in a downdraft, negating everything I just said. I know from experience.

Dano

[Ron 7]

Quote

There I was~ needle on my altimeter was right between 'Oh Shit' and 'You're Fucked'...

I am totally stealing that.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kkeenan 13]

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Preventing a problem before it occurs is way better....

I agree with Dan. It seems really insane to jump a main - the canopy that one should be most proficient with - and not be able to land it in all possible conditions. Reserves usually work. but to ditch a functioning main and go to reserve due to the emergency of a "Bad Spot", seems to be pushing your chances unnecessarily. If your skills are such that you cannot put your main down in a safe place, then you need to rethink your equipment choices.

There have been plenty of test jumps done on mains that are experimental or otherwise known to be unlandable. On these jumps, the standard practice is to cutaway to another main or carry an extra reserve.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[billvon 2,380]

>It seems really insane to jump a main - the canopy that one should be
>most proficient with - and not be able to land it in all possible conditions.

Hmm. I choose my main based on conditions. I'll use my 109 for doing video or RW at Perris, but I often use my 150 for demos. I can get the 109 into any area near Perris (assuming I open at at least 2000 feet) but not into any area in a city, for example.

[danornan 64]

Every jump is managing risk. Jumping out of an airplane, at best is risky and we all choose the level we are willing to take.

My level, jumping out of an airplane, is to assume the worst at all times and know that I should be able to land safely even when the conditions improve.

One accident is enough!

Dano

[kkeenan 13]

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I can get the 109 into any area near Perris (assuming I open at at least 2000 feet) but not into any area in a city, for example.

So, in the (hypothetical) case of finding yourself over terrain unsuitable for your 109, you would cut away and try it with your reserve ?

[shah269 0]

Well I don't know about city landings.....but I had one heck of an off a few months back. I got blown a solid two miles from the DZ.
I was on a 260 and I weight 180 so there was no way I could fight my way into the wind.
I kept looking for safe places to land and every time I thought I had one the wind would push me back further.
Long story short at 1k ft off the ground +/- the wind leveled out such that I was just hanging over some dudes house. I knew from experience that the wind should die down at or around 300ft. But I was no longer at the same level as the DZ so my alit was going to be off so I would have to go by eye....thank god I had good instruction.
So I looked around and saw that some guy had cows in his back yard, where there are cows the ground is soft and free of odd holes. The issue was altitude awareness. I looked around noticed that there were some power lines nearby and could judge my height by them.
So eventually at around 400ft the wind died, I flew down the street, hung a right down the guys dirve way and then a left lined up and looked at the power lines that were a few hundred feet away from me judged my height and made a stand up landing in this guys back yard. Cows were not impressed.
I think the SIM states that if you are going to make such a landing you want to disconnect your RSL, which I did not do, and PLF, which I did not do.
I think the same would apply to any roof or road way. Look for any indications of altitude and wind direction try and land into the wind, avoid cars, power lines, trees, people and cows...I guess?
I think the major issues I was worried about while hanging up there was not landing on the roof of a home since they are not flat and thus the resulting slip and fall would hurt, power lines and cars.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,380]

>So, in the (hypothetical) case of finding yourself over terrain unsuitable
>for your 109, you would cut away and try it with your reserve ?

Assuming it was safe to do so (i.e. sufficient altitude, no other problems) and the larger canopy would improve my chances of landing without serious injury, yes.

[airtwardo 6]

Let's see...I know an 'old guy' that jumps a 210 main and a 220 reserve.

Hummm....maybe the old fart is on to something?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Morrison79 0]

Something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne52pIpYmXA

[airtwardo 6]

I'd be looking for a municipal park, or a commercial area with larger flat roofs.

...or a big - soft, Tuba player!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[shah269 0]

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Something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne52pIpYmXA

What was this guy DOING!
I'm glad he walked away and all but.....WHAT?
See that soccer field! Yeah land there!
And holy mother of god that thing came down fast!
Any info on this guy?
I hope he's ok but OUCH!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!