Don't vandalise peoples logbooks!

[npgraphicdesign 2]

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I'm very superstitious about pre-logging. I still log every jump, but only after I'm safely on the ground.

I rarely ask for signatures anymore, but a very nice note from the organizer of my 900th at LP reminded me that it's good to ask for them sometimes, especially on the milestone jumps.

You mean you don't fill out your log book as you're on final approach?

No, I'm too busy editing my GoPro footage.

Oh right. What WAS I thinking?

[rehmwa 2]

I just put in single lines -

4093 - 4w
4094 - FF
4095 - Cat A (John)
4096-4099 - 4w
4100 - video on FF

at the end of the weekend, I take my ProTrack and get the accumulated time and put it at the bottom (in case my PT crashes or gets lost) - then I put a box around the entire day or weekend.

A single page in my logbook can sometime cover an entire month of diving. 20-40 jumps.

I have a separate logbook for Instruction dives where I put in more detail about the student's jumps. Those take at least an inch of text per jump (about 8 logs per page)


A lot different than my first 3 or 4 logbooks - each page a single jump: date, winds, accuracy, who's on the jump, stamped the formations out, commentary, signatures, etc etc etc et. Those are still fun to go back and read -

But I don't buy logbooks very frequently now.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnMitchell 14]

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A lot different than my first 3 or 4 logbooks - each page a single jump

But I don't buy logbooks very frequently now.

Same here.

I bought a party pack of those little paperback student logbooks from Paragear years ago. I'll put from one to half a dozen jumps on each line, like
"tandem X 4" or "AFF X 3". Works pretty well. I hope to keep jumping until I run out of logbooks. . .

[Zenister 0]

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I just put in single lines -

4093 - 4w
4094 - FF
4095 - Cat A (John)
4096-4099 - 4w
4100 - video on FF

at the end of the weekend, I take my ProTrack and get the accumulated time and put it at the bottom (in case my PT crashes or gets lost) - then I put a box around the entire day or weekend.

I started doing that same thing around 500... I know some people like the verbiage, but I just didnt see the point apart from milestones or extremely memorable skydives.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[cocheese 0]

I think it would be funny to pull out a book containing pictures of your biggest logs. Walt Apple style.

[livendive 8]

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I just put in single lines -

4093 - 4w
4094 - FF
4095 - Cat A (John)
4096-4099 - 4w
4100 - video on FF

at the end of the weekend, I take my ProTrack and get the accumulated time and put it at the bottom (in case my PT crashes or gets lost) - then I put a box around the entire day or weekend.

I started doing that same thing around 500... I know some people like the verbiage, but I just didnt see the point apart from milestones or extremely memorable skydives.

I mostly do working jumps, and I generally write jump number, date, and location, then have my student write whatever they want about the jump. Some of their entries are truly entertaining. If I'm just playing, I either forget to log or I write something brief like "2217 - tracking zoo".

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[decompresion 2]

excel sheet
Single line per day, separate line for special jumps

DD/MM/YYYY #(321-326) 4way10pt,3wayWS,2x5way, HnP
DD/MM/YYYY #327 9way naked tracking. note to self: peeing in full track gets your shoes wet.

also, I put it on my calendar a single entry per day.
I can write a lot in the "meeting notes", attach video, pictures, maps of WS GPS, links to DZ homepages if it is not home dz...

What I like about it , is that it is searchable and sortable.

There are no dangerous dives
Only dangerous divers

[Squeak 17]

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I was surprised at Perris once when my D license and reserve repack card weren't enough to get me on the plane. They wanted to check my log book to see if I was current.

Why the John, I would think that is the minimum any DZ should do on meeting an unfamiliar jumper.


I log on my iPhone, and I dont leave my phone lying about.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[airtwardo 6]

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I was surprised at Perris once when my D license and reserve repack card weren't enough to get me on the plane. They wanted to check my log book to see if I was current.

Why the John, I would think that is the minimum any DZ should do on meeting an unfamiliar jumper.




I log on my iPhone, and I dont leave my phone lying about.

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That's why I always have the DZ I just WAS at on speed dial...the 'new' DZ just makes a quick call and I'm IN!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Zenister 0]

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I was surprised at Perris once when my D license and reserve repack card weren't enough to get me on the plane. They wanted to check my log book to see if I was current.

Why the John, I would think that is the minimum any DZ should do on meeting an unfamiliar jumper.


I log on my iPhone, and I dont leave my phone lying about.

I dont quite understand that either... why is a digital log more accepted than say a protrack/neptune (I've had a few occasions where I hadnt added numbers to my log book yet and they didnt like my protrack&neptune as "logs" even when I pointed out they were synced with respect to time/dates (but not numbers) took a phone call too before they relented.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Squeak 17]

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I was surprised at Perris once when my D license and reserve repack card weren't enough to get me on the plane. They wanted to check my log book to see if I was current.

Why the John, I would think that is the minimum any DZ should do on meeting an unfamiliar jumper.


I log on my iPhone, and I dont leave my phone lying about.

I dont quite understand that either... why is a digital log more accepted than say a protrack/neptune (I've had a few occasions where I hadnt added numbers to my log book yet and they didnt like my protrack&neptune as "logs" even when I pointed out they were synced with respect to time/dates (but not numbers) took a phone call too before they relented.

My iPhone log has EVERY piece of information required by a paper log book. including facility for a signature. it's not merely a record of jumps made on a particular device. It has to be filled in in the SAME manner as a paper log.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[cocheese 0]

So the guy with the fake log book gets to jump while the guy like me with actual talent and experienceisn't trusted. Great. Gotta love logic sometimes. Oh my log book is on the internet ...so it has to be true.

[skymama 35]

I like writing in my log book at the end of the day (and no, I don't leave it laying around. ) I don't have any jumps logged on a computer, there's just something about the ritual of writing the jump into the book that I enjoy. I don't understand how someone could not want to know exactly how many jumps they have!

Plus, if you have a logbook, you can tape a flower in it if a handsome guy hands it to you after a jump. (Thanks, Jimmytavio!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Squeak 17]

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So the guy with the fake log book gets to jump while the guy like me with actual talent and experienceisn't trusted. Great. Gotta love logic sometimes. Oh my log book is on the internet ...so it has to be true.

Where do you get "fake" log book from? the Protrack has no way of showing the who what where of a jump.

Anyone who would falsify a log book will do it on either paper or electronic versions. The same can be said for the Protrack types, just because it has 200 jumps on it in the last 6 months does not mean you did those 200 jumps.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[cocheese 0]

Log books, Iphowns, Protracks, don't prove anything.

If a dzo wants to know what I know, he/ she can ask me questions, put me in a hanging harness, or hook me up to a lie detector.

I don't take pictures, I don't log, and rarely even look at my protrack. I don't look back.

If you don't trust me and don't want me to jump at your dz because I can't produce a decent log book....then can I buy a log book and a few pens? Or should I take my money elsewhere?

[Dean358 0]

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...My wife is VERY conservative and just texted to say she was humiliated and embarrassed...

Very sorry to hear your wife was upset but this sounds more like a harmless prank than vandalism. Skydivng culture -- at least at my home DZ, The Ranch -- has a wonderful free wheeling, funny, let's-all-celebrate-life-without-taking-ourselves-too-seriously-once-we're-on-the-ground vibe. Pranks and some of the goofy tradiitions that have spawned them are just a way to make people feel included in the scene.

Humor, pranks, and this type of culture are, by definition, not PC. Rather refreshing to find that, actually. Again, I'm sorry your wife was offended and I'm not judging her views but if she can't put them aside then is a dropzone really an appropriate place for her to hang out? Isn't that kinda like going to work for Larry Flynt and then getting upset because you're offended by pornography?

www.wci.nyc

[rehmwa 2]

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if she can't put them aside then is a dropzone really an appropriate place for her to hang out? Isn't that kinda like going to work for Larry Flynt and then getting upset because you're offended by pornography?

This reads pretty callous - play MY way, or go away. I don't see anything PC or anti-PC in that. (though I know that's not your intent and it's great you want to make people feel accepted in your own way)

I really don't think there's such a thing as a "skydiving culture" (newbies like to think it's a big fun exclusive club but they either leave or grow out of it eventually) - but there's a lot of individuals that skydive though - and they are as varied as the general population.

So - Prank and have fun with those that feel the same - that's great. But forcing your brand of play on others that don't feel the same is just an indication that you don't give a shit about that person, rather, you are just doing what makes you feel good at anybody else's expense.

Now....if they feel left out of the social circle at that point? well, that's their issue.

If you can't take the time to get to know someone enough to figure out their boundaries, I don't see any reason to play pranks on them in the first place.

Pranks with friends is great - pranks on strangers is just being an asshole.

(Most skydivers I know would pull the prank for fun. If the person didn't appreciate it, they'd just apologize and not do it again. But some would keep doing it anyway. I like to think most of us are the first type of person. Intentions matter at first, it's actions that matter afterward though).

I'm not sure where anyone said his wife wouldn't put it aside either - just like no one said these guys kept on doing it after they found out she wasn't agreeable to that type of play)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[redramdriver 0]

Not posting directly at the above poster...b/c it seems that many "pranksters" are trying to justify their immature behavior. I don't need to feel included if that means allowing someone to offend me directly. If you want to feel "included" then hang out with other immature people and then your all set. Yes, I keep my log book in/or on my stuff. Does that give anyone the right/approval to go into it and write anything? NO. Hey, I see your car keys laying there by your stuff. Does that give me the right to go out and drive your car? NO. It's just the mature thing to do man. If you want to hang out with children, they are over there on the swings at the playground...not at the DZ. If you want to hang out, get drunk after the light is turned on...cool. I don't. You want to get high and do a line or two? Cool....your deal..not mine...still. I think that is the point the OP was making. It's not your "stuff", just leave it alone. Pretty simple really. And, again, nothing personal to the poster I am replying this to...just examples of stuff. I hope someone can please turn the "light on" for others....

So, you bring your beer?

Its 5 o'clock somewhere
POPS #9344

[JohnMitchell 14]

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.then can I buy a log book and a few pens? Or should I take my money elsewhere?

My point exactly. My USPA card showed an experts license and a bunch of diamond wing stuff, so they knew I had X number of jumps or so.

The log book doesn't PROVE I'm current, it's just a show of checking. It's just like taking your shoes off at the airport security line.

And that, Squeak, is why the .

[airtwardo 6]

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if she can't put them aside then is a dropzone really an appropriate place for her to hang out? Isn't that kinda like going to work for Larry Flynt and then getting upset because you're offended by pornography?

This reads pretty callous - play MY way, or go away. I don't see anything PC or anti-PC in that.

I really don't think there's such a thing as a "skydiving culture" (newbies like to think it's a big fun exclusive club but they either leave or grow out of it eventually) - but there's a lot of individuals that skydive though - and they are as varied as the general population.

So - Prank and have fun with those that feel the same - that's great. But forcing your brand of play on others that don't feel the same is just an indication that you don't give a shit about that person, rather, you are just doing what makes you feel good at anybody else's expense.

Now....if they feel left out of the social circle at that point? well, that's their issue.

If you can't take the time to get to know someone enough to figure out their boundaries, I don't see any reason to play pranks on them in the first place.

Pranks with friends is great - pranks on strangers is just being an asshole.

(Most skydivers I know would pull the prank for fun. If the person didn't appreciate it, they'd just apologize and not do it again. But some would keep doing it anyway. I like to think most of us are the first type of person).

I'm not sure where anyone said his wife wouldn't put it aside either - just like no one said these guys kept on doing it after they found out she wasn't agreeable to that type of play)

All good points.

As someone that's been in it a while, how the 'pranking' thing works is ~ you prank someone you know well and you do it in a way that even THEY get a chuckle...THAT often required some thought & creativity.

Logging a jump in a friend's logbook like ~
"Only had 6 line-twists left when I hit the power-lines, lessons I learned: don't wear helmet backwards & always bring clean underwear to the DZ"
~Is funny.

Drawing nasty pics in a woman's logbook that you don't know well is juvenile, disrespectful and idiotic.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnMitchell 14]

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As someone that's been in it a while, how the 'pranking' thing works is ~ you prank someone you know well and you do it in a way that even THEY get a chuckle...THAT often required some thought & creativity.

Drawing nasty pics in a woman's logbook that you don't know well is juvenile, disrespectful and idiotic

Skydivers using judgement to determine appropriate behavior? When's that gonna catch on?

Twardo, you're absolutely on target with this one.
Just like some of those "jokes" played on tandem passengers. They're not always funny.

[Dean358 0]

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This reads pretty callous - play MY way, or go away. I don't see anything PC or anti-PC in that.

Yikes. I tried very hard to make my post not come across as callous, and if I failed I apologize. I posted because I was taken back by OP's use of the word "vandalize" which means to "destroy or damage something willfully or maliciously." I was trying to make the point that this is not the case here. Perhaps a tone deaf and sophomoric attempt at humor, but nothing more.

I do think that there is, at least in my experience, a skydiving "culture" and it's most certainly not Disney Land (and I hope it never becomes that!). If something as mild as a prank logbook entry gone awry becomes "vandalism" then what about the rest of it? No pies? No Ranch Cheer? Mandate dress codes? No dogs and cats living together? You get the idea. Hello PC police.

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...you prank someone you know well and you do it in a way that even THEY get a chuckle...THAT often required some thought & creativity.

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Most skydivers I know would pull the prank for fun. If the person didn't appreciate it, they'd just apologize and not do it again.

I couldn't agree more. I pride myself on being a very polite fellah, and I'd therefore be mortified if a prank I pulled so offended someone. That said, if someone is that easily offended I'll ask again if a DZ is the right place for them? I mean, would you go to an adult comedy club if you were deeply offended by curse words?

www.wci.nyc

[rehmwa 2]

we're all pretty much on the same page in the end (I saw your intent, too, I know you're not callous, I was making a point about respecting others - most PC stuff is just rationalization to avoid respect, IMO)


though I don't think it's my business to decide for someone else if they can participate our sport or not


Someone comes to the DZ to skydive. All the other stuff should really fall under the category of social interaction. I don't think the DZ is special in having any other assumptions. It's the social circle that defines it, not just the generic fact that it's the DZ. YMMV


Case in point - at a big boogie years ago, we had "co-ed" showers. Good fun for anyone that wanted to partake. However, a couple ladies came in and requested nicely that men stay out while they shower (3 ladies, 3 showers so there wasn't anyone waiting extra). A bunch of assholes actually tried to force their way in there because of "whooo hooo, it's a boogie, no rules, adult playground, one guy even mumbled something about "PC Crap" (really), etc etc etc".

Do you really think those 3 ladies should just not go to a boogie, or not skydive because that's a few people's ideas of "skydiving culture"?

I don't think it's so cut a dried. Maybe personal property respect is minor compared to this example, but I don't do a pin check without asking someone, I don't piss with their stuff unless I "know" they are fine with it. I'm happy to trade pranks with others that I know well enough.

Vandalism is simply permanently defacing someone else's property without their permission. It's not vandalism if there is even implied permission (like in your case, or most cases). In the subject case, it's the right word - even if it feels escalatory.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Dean358 0]

Tnx rehmwa, I appreciate your comments.

The example you site of the three women at the boogie is so repulsive that it almost doesn't apply to this discussion. To deny a direct request like that from another human being is such moronic behavior it doesn’t belong at a DZ or anywhere else on the planet. But allow me to pose a more nuanced hypothetical situation:

"Jolie” is a perfume designer, a job she has thanks to her extraordinarily sensitive sense of smell. Jolie and her husband have both decided to take up skydiving and have started showing up at the DZ.

As we all know, above 10K feet the air inside the plane often smells, shall we say, not so good. For most of us, we laugh this off and shout “Door!” But Jolie is absolutely humiliated and embarrassed by this. We’re talking seriously upset. As in, “her olfactory system has been vandalized” upset. What should we be required to do about this?

Should the DZ identify the offending jumpers and not let them continue to jump? Install air freshening systems in the planes? Hold nutrition-training seminars for all jumpers? Post on the net?

Or……..

Should Jolie take responsibility for her extra sensitivity herself? Should she accept that this “just comes with the territory” and if she decides to continue skydiving take some steps to make herself more comfortable, like purchasing nose plugs?

www.wci.nyc

[normiss 620]

If skyjumping crosses the line into becoming a hostile environment as the HR types say, we're fucked.