jcd11235 0 #26 August 24, 2012 Quote>The dealer's job is to deal the cards, not to pay attention to patterns in the cards >as they come out. A dealer has far more jobs than just "dealing the cards" which is why there's a bit of training involved. There's a lot of training involved because it's not as easy as many people think do deal, take bets and give payouts all correctly and quickly. Quote One of those jobs is to watch out for problems that will cost the house lots of money. That's more in line with the responsibilities of the floorperson and pit manager. The dealer is just supposed to run the game without making mistakes. In this case, he dealt cards from a deck that was, as far as he knew, shuffled. There's no indication that the dealer did anything wrong. Looking further into the story, it looks like a multiple deck shoe was used, and the order of the cards was the same for each deck, resulting in a repeating sequence of cards. It doesn't look like the cards were in original order (e.g., As, Ac, Ah, Ad, 2s, 2c, 2h, 2d, … or similar). That makes it sounds more like the cards were shuffled identically (i.e., faulty shuffling machine or algorithm) rather than not being shuffled at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #27 August 24, 2012 Quote Who said anything about a dealer being a pre-programed automaton? You did, by suggesting that the dealer's faith in the pre-shuffling of the cards should be absolute and unyielding. Quote Any particular sequence of cards from a shuffled deck is equally improbable. Once again, you're completely failing to follow that thought through to it's conclusion, and ignoring it even though it's being pointed out to you. Cards coming out in a non-shuffled order may be as improbable as any other order - but any specific order of sufficient length is so vastly improbable that a known possible outside influence causing that order (like the deck not being shuffled) is always going to be more likely to have caused it than random chance. Quote It's makes as little sense to blame the dealer as it does to blame the gamblers. I don't blame the gamblers - they noticed(And I think any casino would take the view that everyone who works on the floor is responsible for paying attention to possible cheating/wierd shit like this.)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #28 August 24, 2012 Quotebut any specific order of sufficient length is so vastly improbable that a known possible outside influence causing that order (like the deck not being shuffled) is always going to be more likely to have caused it than random chance. That's not what seems to have happened, though.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #29 August 24, 2012 Quote I think the casino loses and the gamblers win. The gamblers had no duty to the casino. The casino would probably have better luck suing the ones they got the cards from. That's where the mistake was made. So lacking in merit it should be dismissed on the face of the complaint alone. It's shit like this that gives scum-sucking shysters a bad name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #30 August 24, 2012 I love this casino's outdoor facilities. Nice marina, nice deck with entertainment, nice restaurants, nice crowd. That's all I've got since I play the slots. Sorry. I was born in Atlantic City and raised a couple of towns away.Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #31 August 26, 2012 3 things: - the players seemed to all notice - the bets increased and so did the frequency of winnings - players know the order of a deck of cards, and so should any good dealer... Given these 3 facts, it's not especially reassuring that the dealer didn't notice, or didn't notice sooner..."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sacex250 0 #32 August 26, 2012 Quote3 things: - the players seemed to all notice - the bets increased and so did the frequency of winnings - players know the order of a deck of cards, and so should any good dealer... Given these 3 facts, it's not especially reassuring that the dealer didn't notice, or didn't notice sooner... Does the dealer actually get to see all the cards? Interesting side note here: when did the mafia start settling scores by suing people who rip them off?It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #33 August 31, 2012 Update: http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/judge-orders-golden-nugget-to-cash-million-in-disputed-mini/article_216c7dac-f3a3-11e1-b708-001a4bcf887a.htmlAlways be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #34 August 31, 2012 QuoteUpdate: http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/judge-orders-golden-nugget-to-cash-million-in-disputed-mini/article_216c7dac-f3a3-11e1-b708-001a4bcf887a.html "... the game was illegal because the cards were not shuffled." Uhhhh...I'd like to see a reference to that law. The reporting doesn't look very objective."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #35 August 31, 2012 QuoteUpdate: http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/judge-orders-golden-nugget-to-cash-million-in-disputed-mini/article_216c7dac-f3a3-11e1-b708-001a4bcf887a.html Good But I can't really blame the casino for trying to get the money back. Probably didn't cost a whole lot to file in court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #36 August 31, 2012 QuoteQuoteUpdate: http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/judge-orders-golden-nugget-to-cash-million-in-disputed-mini/article_216c7dac-f3a3-11e1-b708-001a4bcf887a.html "... the game was illegal because the cards were not shuffled." Uhhhh...I'd like to see a reference to that law. The reporting doesn't look very objective. I know the Judge who ruled on this one. A very, very fair and upstanding man of the judiciary. Good to see he got this case.Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #37 September 5, 2012 Update on the update! http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/golden-nugget-flops-on-folding-casino-indicates-it-will-appeal/article_d32e1d6a-f791-11e1-99a8-001a4bcf887a.html Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #38 September 6, 2012 So, now, not only are the winnings tied up by the casino, they're also tied up by the lawyers. Why not just ask 20 of your friends to go in and cash in 9,999 in chips a 2-3 times each. (its actually less than that because 598,000 winning are divided by 6 winners. From what I understand, 10,000 in winnings HAS TO BE claimed on a tax form. anything less does not. So, You ask your friends to go in and you pay them $500/1000 each. they win, you win and no taxes are claimed. you win again. How much are the law fees and how long will the money be tied up? How much will be left when you're striped of all the fees? Probably better to go in with your friends.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 September 6, 2012 QuoteSo, now, not only are the winnings tied up by the casino, they're also tied up by the lawyers. not so - it appears the casino offered to pay up the rest of the chips. But now the gamblers want to get MORE than the remaining payout Quotethe casino would pay the gamblers what they’re owed, provided they agreed to drop their countersuits and not file any additional claims. “I am disappointed that our players and customers refused to accept our offer to cash in all unredeemed chips. . . “The lawyers, it appears, are now demanding on behalf of their gambler clients, three times their unlawful winnings plus significant attorneys’ fees and damages against the Golden Nugget for unlawful detention by the State Police,” the release states. . “It remains my clients’ position that their race and ethnicity was the motivating factor in the Golden Nugget’s decisions to invalidate the gaming chips in the first instance, profile for the purpose of detaining and interrogating them, and falsely imprisoning them without basis,” the letter states. “My clients’ civil rights claims are now further bolstered by the slanderous comments made by Mr. Scheinthal.” the gamblers appear to be suing for extra for "unlawful detention" (by the police, yet they sue the casino????) and with an added race card offense to sweeten the pot.....??? apparently $1.5M is not enough - more like $5M apparently is the magic number disgusting - Now it's turned around and the casino appeared to do the right thing and now the gamblers are being greedy 1 - Casino should pay 2 - Casino should sue the card vendor 3 - Gamblers should have spoken up when noticing the cards - not legal, but morally the right thing to do 4 - Gamblers should still get the winnings despite being slimey 5 - Gamblers upset about the incarceration? they should sue the police at this point, the gamblers are coming across as asswipes - or at least their lawyers certainly are ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #40 September 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo, now, not only are the winnings tied up by the casino, they're also tied up by the lawyers. not so - it appears the casino offered to pay up the rest of the chips. But now the gamblers want to get MORE than the remaining payout Quote“The lawyers, it appears, are now demanding on behalf of their gambler clients, three times their unlawful winnings plus significant attorneys’ fees and damages against the Golden Nugget for unlawful detention by the State Police,” the release states. . or at least their lawyers certainly are That (bolded) was the magic sentence I read. Of course, it seems the casino realized there was some form of unlawful detention so they said "we'll pay if no other charges are filed." the lawyers/gamblers got that and decided to tie up the money in order to get more. It was a LUCKY day in the lives of some gamblers they shoud cash the chips and move on.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #41 September 18, 2012 http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/press/atlantic_city/atlantic-city-gamblers-reject-latest-golden-nugget-offer-in-dispute/article_cac1fdf4-011e-11e2-bc89-001a4bcf887a.htmlAlways be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gonzalesna 0 #42 September 18, 2012 Quote Quote >Except the default configuration from the factory is shuffled. Right. However, it is not impossible that the factory made an error, and that that deck was actually not shuffled. Yes, I agree that P(A) != P(A|B) when A and B are not independent. However, from the dealer's perspective, B is given, that is, to the best of the dealers knowledge, the cards were shuffled, so P(A) is irrelevant; only P(A|B) matters. I are Marine. I have belly button.Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #43 September 18, 2012 Quote I are Marine. I have belly button. Bomb go BOOM!"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
