I took out a 75,000 dollar loan today to become a flight instructor

[pontiacgtp00 0]

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My father got "hosed" through a "local flying club" back in 2002. I'll never attend one of those shoddy looking places. I prefer a well established, accredited school. Their price sheet said $9400 for the private pilots license part 141, and that's what I'm going by. Embry-Riddle flight school is even higher.

Private pilot requires 40 hours minimum and in 2000 when I did mine the national average was 72 to pass the practical. I did mine in about 45 but I was flying two or three times a week.

If you rent a 152/172 [gotta split the experience since you'll be doing a good but if CFI work in the 172 platform) wet for $75 average (say 50 hours), pay $30 for the instructor (say 25 hours of dual), that puts you at about 3650 plane plus 750 CFI or about $4400

Accredited flight school? Accredited by WHO!? The way it works is you build your time, pay your practical exam fees, and if you pass you get the rating.

http://www.pea.com/faq/general/you-say-phoenix-east-is-a-nationally-accredited-school-what-does-that-mean-to-me.html

[guitar_nut 0]

Depending on your work ethic and self-motivation, you can get the first batch of ratings for a lot less if you find a private instructor or small school. Your private and instrument, if you're flying 3-4 days a week (which you can with that size loan) can be done in a 152 or 172 and will cost you about 12K, including books, examiner's fees, gear, etc. While you're working on these, you keep a part time job to pay down the loan interest and buy twinkies. You'll then have to build the minimum hours for your commercial rating. Then comes the CFI rating. Doing these on your own will leave a large chunk of the loan untouched, which you can then apply towards your multi ratings and ATP time requirements.

I'd do up to your CFI, and maybe the multi initial, on your own before you hit the flight school. The other thing is, you might not like it. I know a few pilots that went the career route. A few love it, a few don't. Better to come out of it 25k in debt with a few ratings and decide you're not into the lifestyle, than 75k in debt with a job you decided you don't like.

And good luck, because I totally would do what you're doing if I could turn back the clock

--------------------------
That which can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.

[pontiacgtp00 0]

I'd say every dime of the 100 dollars per week I earn working part time minimum wage will go to housing and food expenses.

[pontiacgtp00 0]

I'm not going to argue with you about it. It's an established school. I'm not going to go get ripped off by some dude flying an old junk c172 out of a grass strip in the middle of nowhere.

[oldwomanc6 38]

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If you can pay the interest while in school, that will help keep overall debt low. Pay rates for Pilots are pretty good.
http://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilot/airlinepayrates.html

For a fortunate few, this is true. My brother is a Capt. for Southwest Airlines. He makes a boatload of money.

Competition for positions is quite stiff.

BTW, he went through the military. He always knew he wanted to fly. From elementary school, he applied himself towards that goal. He went on to get an engineering degree from Cal Poly, an Air Force commission, opted for big planes, and became the youngest C-5 and C-9 instructor in the A.F.

After all that, he still had to wait a year to be taken on by S.W.A.

I'm not saying this to discourage you, but wish you well, and hope you achieve whatever your goals are.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[LyraM45 0]

I'm paying about 70K back in loans for my aviation degree, and it sucks, but I don't regret a damn bit of it. It's worth it if you go to work every day doing something that you love, and if you think this is the start for you to get down the path to fly for a living, then I say go for it. Just have a back up plan in mind if everything does not go as planned. This business is a tough business to get in to!

Good luck!

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[Squeak 17]

you have a whole bunch of experienced people on here who have walked that mile you are looking at and they ALL tell you you're getting ripped off.

You seem content to complain about how little money you have and make yet completely disregard their advice.


Fuck that all sounds so familiar on these forums

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Dean358 0]

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I'm not going to argue with you about it. It's an established school.

You might want to Goggle "Silver State Helicopters." They were an "established school" too:

http://www.aviationtoday.com/rw/issue/cover/Silver-State-Helicopters-What-Really-Happened_30107.html#.UG5aOkJhJUQ

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/us/13vegas.html


Here's an excerpt from the first link above:

"....It’s been a little more than a year since Silver State Helicopters (SSH) abruptly shut its doors on Feb. 3, 2008 and went out of business. That day also marked the last time that approx. 2,000 of its flight academy students saw any hope of getting the training they had paid nearly $70,000 for in advance....."


If your goal is to become a professional aviator then by all means, go for it! But perhaps not via this particular flight school. Be aware that you're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position by paying for that much flight training up front. At the very least, I recommend you have an attorney review the loan documents.

www.wci.nyc

[chutem 0]

Do a little research on Silver State Helicopter flight schools and see what can happen at an established school.

I googled Phoenix East Aviation reviews and found a few things. Check this http://www.flightschoolreviewer.com/United-States/FL---Daytona-Beach/phoenix-east-aviation
That's just the top of the list.

Be very carefull.

[chutem 0]

How much is the monthly payment on the loan?

[airtwardo 6]

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I'm not going to argue with you about it. It's an established school. I'm not going to go get ripped off by some dude flying an old junk c172 out f a grass strip in the middle of nowhere.

Hey, whatever dude. It's your money. I'm just trying to get you to swivel your head a little bit like a good SA skydiver.

Edit: And if you think everything else is a POS 172 flying out of a grass strip run by a bunch of hillbillies you don't know anything about flying clubs.

There is another point to consider...the loan was (from my understanding) acquired through the school.

That's most likely why it was quickly approved.

There may be some kind of agreement in place as to where & how it's used?

My son did something similar when he got his A&P.

I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to get an unsecured loan for 75,000 with the op's age & income.

pontiac has a point, it would take considerably longer to 'flying club' it since without the loan he'd be trying to do it on extra income and spare time, with a job not offering much of either...

It IS a lot of money, tough call for some maybe.

But I think I can appreciate his decision. At an age that's old enough to question continuing to do something unrewarding on every level, young enough to take a shot at 'living the dream' and get a real career path going.

Worst case...down the road he's making ball-pack what he is now, with a loan payment to buck up monthly...while having a job in aviation that offers possible advancement opportunity and definite personal satisfaction.

The best way to gamble & win is to bet on yourself to succeed.


no risk no reward so FUCK YEAH!





~if things don't work out, what are they gonna do...throw him out of an airplane and make him work a dead end job?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[chutem 0]

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Well now, that is true. If its an unsecured note to the school as the creditor there wouldn't be a whole lot they can do.

But even if that is the case $75k is still more than double what it would cost to get the same rating elsewhere.

Are these type of loans backed by gov funds? It's hard to believe a guy with no job can get a $75K unsecured loan without the gov backing it up. Do we the taxpayers get to pay for it if he does not?

[airtwardo 6]

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Well now, that is true. If its an unsecured note to the school as the creditor there wouldn't be a whole lot they can do.

But even if that is the case $75k is still more than double what it would cost to get the same rating elsewhere.

Are these type of loans backed by gov funds? It's hard to believe a guy with no job can get a $75K unsecured loan without the gov backing it up. Do we the taxpayers get to pay for it if he does not?

Up-thread pontiac said;

The school is Phoenix East Aviation in Daytona, FL. It's an accredited school of course. Sallie Mae is my lender, the school has a lending agreement with them.

That's in essence what my son had, earning his A&P rating...less & of course

In my kids case the school got all the money, paid the interest on the loan while he was in school, gave him quarterly statements listing what was spent on what and what was left...and IIRC gave him 6 months following graduation before his payments started.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[theplummeter 14]

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If you can pay the interest while in school, that will help keep overall debt low. Pay rates for Pilots are pretty good.
http://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilot/airlinepayrates.html

Also bear in mind that those payrates are not based on a 40 hour work week, but a monthly guarantee, usually around 70 hours per month.

There are four regional airlines currently hiring and that consistently hire pilots with less than 1500 flight hours. Their pay rates are 14,400, 20,700, 21,000, and $23,400 per year. Second and third year pay is roughly $2k/year more than the previous year.

So, lets say that you finished all your ratings quickly, instructed for the school for a couple years (at around $20) and got on with a regional airline.

A loan of $75,000 at 6% (I'm guessing better than what you found) would give you a payment of 832.65 monthly. If you were to get on with the highest paying regional airline that is likely to hire you, you're looking at roughly $1950/month before taxes/deductions. If you pay an effective tax rate of 10% that takes out 195/month, health insurance at least 200/month, and make your loan payment you would be lucky to have $722.35 left per month.

The salespeople at a lot of these flight schools are good at using terms like "accredited" and "airline style training" while attempting to sell an upcoming pilot shortage in order to get you to sign. The truth is that when Orville and Wilbur buit the first airplane there was one pilot too many in the world and that ratio has never improved.

I say follow your dreams but every single cent that you don't spend or finance getting there are very helpful in the long run, and any training that doesn't include loggable flight time towards your FAA certificates is pretty much useless.

[flyhi 24]

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There are four regional airlines currently hiring and that consistently hire pilots with less than 1500 flight hours. Their pay rates are 14,400, 20,700, 21,000, and $23,400 per year. Second and third year pay is roughly $2k/year more than the previous year.

A regional airline job is the greatest job you can have while living in your parent's basement.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[tkhayes 124]

A lot of coin, but if that is your dream. My experience in 30 years of skydiving is that pilots do not make a lot of money until you get to the top. And the pyramid is mighty tall and the base of it is really wide.

You better be ready to travel around the world, work shit duty and bust a nut to make a living and get to a better place. And of course don;t make any mistakes on the way,

[aphid 0]

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Do a little research on Silver State Helicopter flight schools and see what can happen at an established school.

I googled Phoenix East Aviation reviews and found a few things. Check this http://www.flightschoolreviewer.com/United-States/FL---Daytona-Beach/phoenix-east-aviation
That's just the top of the list.

Be very carefull.

Very good link. I hope the OP takes the time to browse it.

[Phillbo 11]

Given the title of the thread I'm assuming it's too late to back out without a penalty.

[chutem 0]

Another question fo the OP, Have you gotten your FAA medical yet? As some here have found out when trying to get one to do tandems there is more to it than the physical.

Edit... I see in the OP's profile he already does tandems so should already have a medical.

[airtwardo 6]

...when Orville and Wilbur buit the first airplane there was one pilot too many in the world and that ratio has never improved.

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~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[theplummeter 14]

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Tell ya what, why don't you give these guys a call and see what they say?

Cloud Dancer Deland FL

They're right down the road from the DZ, the trailer park is right there, and you can pack and sling meat at the DZ when you're not actively flying.

All I'm saying is do a little bit more research before you end up with a huge nut you'll never be able to pay off.

This is the best advice so far in the thread. I finished up my private and most of my instrument rating by working for an FBO and renting their Cessna 150 for cheap. Between that and working a full time job delivering pizza I saved up $15k in just under a year and had 80ish hours of flight time. I financed exactly $9700 and finished up all of my ratings in a twin at www.allatps.com with a part time 135 job waiting for me based on my work performance at the FBO. I spent one year there and then got a job doing air ambulance where I have been since 2001. Most of my friends/classmates have gone the regional route. Of the five I regularly talk to one is at Skywest airlines and fairly happy, one just got on with Southwest and is excited, two don't work in aviation anymore, and one is about to start at the bottom of his third regional seniority list when Comair shuts down. All five borrowed everything to get their ratings and I am the only one of the six that has no student loan debt, and haven't for five years.