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monkeysfist

pulling low

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My view is that I would rather have more time to deal with a mal, do my post-opening admin, get back to the DZ, fit into a logical place in the landing pattern, set up for my front riser turn etc than to have an extra 5 seconds of freefall.

I regularly pull at 4,000'.

Personally I think low pulling is an unnecessary risk. But then I suppose so is swooping so whatever.



As to your pattern objectives, which are commendable, you don't need 4000 ft to accomplish them.

Pulling at or below 3000 ft is not "low", or an unnecessary risk. Now true, I came up "back in the day", when we were dumping rounds and fast opening early generation squares at 2000 - 2500 ft. In those days, I usually dumped at more like 2800 ft and caught flack for "opening high", because I'd be sitting in and opened at 2500. Nowadays, on smaller loads (less than 10 Way), I'm usually going through 3 grand at line stretch, with a snivelling canpopy. I like it that way. On larger loads, or if things have gone to hell, I'll stay in my track until my pull alarm sounds at 3 grand, or in the worst case, until I see everyone around me has pulled themselves out of the picture. But all things being equal, I like to dump slightly above 3 grand and am by no means pulling "low".

In the old days, when I was pulling between 2500 - 3000 ft, I once had a full blown streamer mal, cutaway, and deployed my (round) reserve, which was fully opened just a shade below 1800. When I jumped off El Capitan in 1980, my 7 cell main was open at about the same altitude.

The lower you go, the quicker you do have to commit to acting if things don't look right. My hard deck alarm is set for 2 grand, though I'll go with a visual fix of 1800 before letting the main go with a "low speed" mal - if it's a total, baglock, or streamer, forget it, it's gone. To me, the bottom line is to have Plan B IN MOTION , i.e. being ACTED upon, above 1500 ft.

Ultimately, we can jack up recommended or required pull altitudes forever. Why not 5000 ft ? It begs the question: since you're still falling out of the sky, is this really the sport for you ? We have to be able to assume a certain amount of risk. It's not a question of whether to cop an extra few seconds of freefall - it's whether you're comfortable being there at all.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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I agree that I am not "low". Many might say I am high. But my enjoyment in this sport is more from the canopy ride than the freefall. I would rather do altitude clear and pulls all the time, but for various reasons I can't. Again, many might disagree and that's entirely their right.

To suggest that I don't belong in skydiving because I prefer to pull at 4,000' is a very narrow-minded, elitist view. My hard deck is also 2,000', but unlike you it is HARD. When that alarm goes off if I still don;t have a good main I am chopping. People have died because of "it's just one more line twist".


My original post started with "My view is...". I am not suggesting that it is right for other people, I just thought that some newer jumpers might like to hear a different point of view.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Just be sure to let others know on your load that you pull at 5k otherwise it could potentially cause some problems;)



Again, not if there is sufficient horizontal separation.



you should be telling people on the plane you plan of pulling at 5K regardless of how you think the horizontal seperation is going to work out

you especially should be telling people your pulling at 5K if they are doing the same type of jump as you(belly for example) and they plan on exiting after you

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Just be sure to let others know on your load that you pull at 5k otherwise it could potentially cause some problems;)



Again, not if there is sufficient horizontal separation.



you should be telling people on the plane you plan of pulling at 5K regardless of how you think the horizontal seperation is going to work out

you especially should be telling people your pulling at 5K if they are doing the same type of jump as you(belly for example) and they plan on exiting after you



Why?

Oh yeah - so they can allow sufficient horizontal separation!!
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Why?

Oh yeah - so they can allow sufficient horizontal separation!!



mainly so they can change the exit order to get out ahead of you if they are doing the same type of jump.

if your getting out after everyone who is on a similar dive to you then pulling at 5K isnt a problem. if you arent then it can be a problem

telling people helps resolve this problem but there is no point in pretending that pulling at 5 is a non issue because it can be

edit; just to clarify the only thing i have a problem with is that you suggested there was no need to tell the load your intentions

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Preface - total newbie here.

Why do you care what someone thinks of you? If you know you are in the right it shouldn't matter what they say.

It only matters if you think they could have a point.......



Well, you should listen to what is being said no matter how you feel about it.

Think of it this way...

Nobody knows everything. The person speaking to you may very well have a valid point whether or not you think so.

Even though you think you are right, there very well may be a piece of information that you don't have. Listening and evaluating could get you to re-think your position.

Try to look past the presentation. Some people will come across as Drill Sergeants with puffed up chests and red faces and some will come across as Mrs Feelgood. Either way, at least listen and evaluate the message for content, not presentation.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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At the number of jump you have, if you have a B license, you still can pull at 2200 ft minimum to be legal. The person who "attacked" you was probably scarred for herself in such a situation. Now the situation seems more dramatic from the ground when you pull at 2500 ft while everybody else pulls higher. You then become the bad guy who pulls LOW.
If you have a Protrack or another device registering the opening altitude, just show the "attacker" the written opening altitude without any comments.
Now the choice of opening altitude depends on many factors like : type of parachute, your experience, your readiness for emergency procedures, people still tracking above you in formation skydiving...Whatever you do, there will be people to criticize you. She was not right to do what she did. She could come to you and say : « what happens, you seem to have pulled low». Don't let anybody to put you down, never. Next time she does it, just start laughing at her...;)
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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At the number of jump you have, if you have a B license, you still can pull at 2200 ft minimum to be legal.



USPA Sim:

G. Minimum opening altitudes
Minimum container opening altitudes above the ground
for skydivers are:
1. Tandem jumps–4,500 feet AGL
2. All students and A-license holders–3,000 feet AGL
3. B-license holders–2,500 feet AGL
4. C- and D-license holders–2,000 feet AGL
But what do I know?

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He was using the CSPA rules, makes sense cause his profile says he's in Canada.

From PIM 1 - BSRs General:

2.5 The minimum altitudes (AGL) at which the main parachute must be activated are:

- 1220 metres (4000') for all tandem jumps
- 760 metres (2500') for all Solo and A CoP holders
- 670 metres (2200') for all other CoP holders [B, C, D]

BSRs Students:

2.11 The students main parachute must be activated at a minimum altitude of 2800 feet AGL.

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Anytime anyone yells at you, tell them to fuck off, or just smile and nod (whichever fits your personality). A very basic rule to effectively influencing people is to praise in public and criticize in private. This person apparently sucks at doing that. She was right to let you know that she saw a safety issue, she just did it in the worst possble way.

Pulling low probably won't hurt anyone but yourself, so the decision, in my opinion, is entirely up to you. I teach new guys to keep it above 3 at least until they have dealt with some sort of mal. I haven't had a cutaway, but I've had a close call or two, so with my responses to those situations, I'm comfortable with pulling lower if I want to. The same seems to apply to you.

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I remember a discussion between the local "skygods" at Cape Parachute club in the early 90's. I was then a A-license holder and eegerly learning everything of importance from them. Anyway they were talking about pulling low and mutual consensus was that one should NEVER go below the Big 1! That is 1000 ft agl.:)

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"Because I can" isn't a really great reason for pulling low. Why do you want to pull low?

So what's your reason?



I pull low because I can't afford the ride to altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWZXcn67Ej4&p=73B43AB1A40A5BE7&playnext=1&index=54

To the OP: Tell that wanker to mind her own business. Or, I can come to your DZ, pull below 500 feet, and that way you will look like a conservative jumper.

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"Because I can" isn't a really great reason for pulling low. Why do you want to pull low?

So what's your reason?



I pull low because I can't afford the ride to altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWZXcn67Ej4&p=73B43AB1A40A5BE7&playnext=1&index=54

To the OP: Tell that wanker to mind her own business. Or, I can come to your DZ, pull below 500 feet, and that way you will look like a conservative jumper.



jumping from bridges is even cheaper.

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I remember a discussion between the local "skygods" at Cape Parachute club in the early 90's. I was then a A-license holder and eegerly learning everything of importance from them. Anyway they were talking about pulling low and mutual consensus was that one should NEVER go below the Big 1! That is 1000 ft agl.:)



Back in the early to mid 1990s AADs were for students and Airtec needed to make the Cypres concealable so experienced jumpers could consider buying one. We jumped big square canopies that might turn lazily if things went wrong. We jumped Sabres and Monarchs that would send today's skydivers crying to their mommies about the openings being too fast and hard. There weren't radical differences in parachute speeds.

Today going through 1000 feet of pressure altitude will open your reserve. Big square canopies are only for students with tapered wings that spin up recommended for everyone else. People like canopies that snivel for 800' which is out of line with the 200' implied by the USPA 2000' minimum pack opening altitude and 1800' cutaway decision altitude. Canopy speed through the pattern varies radically.

You have to pick altitudes appropriate for the equipment in question.

I'm pretty happy opening a big F111 seven cell with a nice .7 pound per square foot wing loading for accuracy and no AAD below 1000'. It's not going to malfunction, malfunction quickly, or take too long to open. It'll fly as slow as walking speed and still produce a soft landing. It doesn't take much space to land (out or in) - a packing mat will do without obstacles, or 5000 square feet surrounded by trees like a back yard.

With a Cypres that will open on a snivel through 1000 feet, 105 square feet of elliptical where spinning malfunctions mean when you cutaway you're already going fast enough for free-fall maneuvers, slow openings, landing speeds of 50-60 MPH with slow moving traffic sharing the same field, and needing a runway to land I want 3000' to have time to deal with problems, not be landing in traffic, and fly to a long smooth surface.

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