Re: Felix- Chuck Yeager once again shows off his arrogance

[SkydiveJack 1]

Yes Jim, I believe this was a major mark in aviation history.

+20% greater altitude than Joe Kittinger. An unlike Joe, no drogue chute was used. According to official data and histories, Kittenger didn’t go supersonic. According to initial reports Felix went well beyond Mach 1.

Felix did what had not been done before, by a major margin.

If you call his jump a stunt then in essence you are calling every other world record in skydiving a stunt. Just because some wuffo doesn’t have cable TV doesn’t mean it’s not a major mark in aviation history. Just because it was sponsored by Red Bull and not NASA doesn’t mean it was just a stunt.

We both apparently understand where Yeager is coming from. Big ego, self promoter, arrogant. Heck, we both have antidotes about him being an arrogant money grubbing person. But I don’t like the way he dismissed this great skydiving accomplishment just because it apparently might overshadow his reenactment of his day in the sun 65 years ago.

The ultimate arrogance is when a great person refuses to acknowledge the greatness in others.

Jim, I like and respect you very much. Why don’t we agree to disagree on this one, even though we seem to agree on parts of it!

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...who has just made a major mark in aviation history.

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Common Jack...a major mark?

Not to take anything away from Felix, he set records, what he did took skill & balls.

But Yeager blazed the path to Space, as did Kittinger...

Their aviation accomplishments are not only not on the same page, they're not even in the same book.

Again all due respect to Red Bull & Felix, but let's be realistic. It was a publicity 'stunt', a marketing venture.

They did what in essence had been done before.

They used basically known equipment and proven procedure.

Yes they 'may have' gained some additional information that may be of some use to the space program but was that their only intention...?

Was / Is this information breaking new ground - uncharted territory type thing?? Remains to be seen at this point.

Did they gather this information by possibly putting a human unnecessarily in harms way...I mean wouldn't a robot in todays technological setting have been able to do the same thing, maybe more?

It was a stunt...pretty fuckin' amazing and ballsy one, but a stunt non the less.

Know how ya tell it's not a 'major mark in aviation history'...Coverage, a wuffo without Discovery channel might only hear about it in a 20 second blurb on network news.


I'm not saying I agree with what Yeager said, just that I understand where he's coming from in some small way.

I too had a 'scratch my head' moment with Chuck Yeager.
He once made a few very nice remarks regarding a certain professional parachute team I'm a part of, during a conversation we were having at 'Acey'.

...I said can I quote you ~ he replied 'NOT without writing me a check'

I come from a point of experience in which I can tip my hat to BOTH Chuck & Felix.

That's the thing about 'Heroes', they're all human and have faults, just like the rest of us...if arrogance & self promotion are Yeager's only ones, Hell I'm good with that.

[airtwardo 6]

Jim, I like and respect you very much. Why don’t we agree to disagree on this one, even though we seem to agree on parts of it!

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Well.....ok, but only because it's YOUR turn to buy!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 6]

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Another fun fact: Chuck Yeager wasn't the first choice for the X-1 Project. Bob Hoover was supposed to have that honor, but got into some trouble doing some top gun style high speed passes! He ended up flying chase plane for Chuck during the record attempts.

Hoover>Yeager

Yup...and if Yeager said he had busted ribs, Hoover would be the 'one'.

Another fun fact~

The X-1 probably wasn't the 1st aircraft to do it. It was the one with instruments to prove it.

It's widely accepted that the YX86 did it in a dive some time earlier and a F-86a did it the day before Yeager flew the X-1 to mach.

No instruments to verify and the air-force wasn't about to let on X-1 $$ wasn't necessary.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[theplummeter 14]

Kittinger is clearly a much classier act than Yaeger, as is Baumgartner. Yaeger lets another pilot break the sound barrier with him sitting in the back (could have been replaced with a dummy and the exact same outcome) and then blows off the Stratos team like that's been done before and its easy.

At the risk of becoming the anti-Shah, I'll put this out there:

Yaeger needs to get off his high horse and acknowledge the fact that the scientists, engineers, fabricators, and other people who did all the real work are the people entitled to the overwhelming majority of the credit.

[SkydiveJack 1]

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Jim, I like and respect you very much. Why don’t we agree to disagree on this one, even though we seem to agree on parts of it!

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Well.....ok, but only because it's YOUR turn to buy!

You're on! See you next year at the Acey and first round is on me.

BTW, I just now saw the video Rhonda Lee linked to. The great man seems to have gone down hill a bit.

I think I need to back off and just try to continue to respect his past while now better understanding the brashness of his recent comments.

[airtwardo 6]

Yeager needs to get off his high horse and acknowledge the fact that the scientists, engineers, fabricators, and other people who did all the real work are the people entitled to the overwhelming majority of the credit.

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You talkin' about Yeager's sound barrier thing or Felix's...oh wait, doesn't really matter huh.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Dave,

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Sort of like the guy who rode the rocket sled (can't remember his name).

Here he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stapp

JerryBaumchen

[theplummeter 14]

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Yeager needs to get off his high horse and acknowledge the fact that the scientists, engineers, fabricators, and other people who did all the real work are the people entitled to the overwhelming majority of the credit.

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You talkin' about Yeager's sound barrier thing or Felix's...oh wait, doesn't really matter huh.

Both. At least Felix respected Kittinger enough to enjoy his mentoring and the whole team got some of the credit they deserve.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Jack,

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I believe this was a major mark in aviation history.

I have read the entirety of this thread & I am with you on this one.

Yeager, Col Joe, Felix all did something no one else did before. They each accomplished in their own way.

Red Bull paid for Felix's efforts; our tax dollars paid for Yeager & Col Joe's. All while they collected their salaries.

JerryBaumchen

[Krip 2]

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Hi Jack,

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I believe this was a major mark in aviation history.

I have read the entirety of this thread & I am with you on this one.

Yeager, Col Joe, Felix all did something no one else did before. They each accomplished in their own way.

Red Bull paid for Felix's efforts; our tax dollars paid for Yeager & Col Joe's. All while they collected their salaries.

JerryBaumchen

Hi Jerry

From what I've read Col Joe also collected his salary while ataying in the Hilton (Hanoi that is) and rode to altitude in a open basket. Brrrr on his 32 jump.

No AFF, no tunnel just a G.I. doing his duty.I'm guessing Col Joe did spend some time in a altitude chanber , cold box etc,

Thisisn't intended to take anything away from Felix and the Rred Bull teams record, just a different time and different technology.

R.

Chuck Meh.

R.I.P.

[talon2 0]

Jerry has had the most measured and respectful response so far .Yeager and Kittinger completed military missions successfully and in doing so contributed immensely to the efforts and projects of those who followed. Felix is not an "overnight success" story......He had a goal and bravely worked it to success ,His other civilian predecessor, Nick Piantanida who attempted the same just after Kittinger died from mask decomp but had set a balloon altitude record as part of the lead up..that record and and Kittingers have passed to Felix.......rather like a baton ,the old symbol of a successful jump. Sound barrier disputes are a whole other post ........anyone know Andrew Green ?.......Press questions to anyone are "loaded to sell news .......Yeagers flight was planned to be an anniversary ........Felix had to wait because of weather .....Kismet

[grimmie 173]

I think every skydiver I know would have made the Stratos jump. I'm not sure every skydiver in 1960 would have wanted to make Col. Joe's jump.

Chuck Yeager has brass balls, but Gary Connery did the ballsiest flight I have ever seen.

Isn't Olav jumping from a spaceship over Russia soon?

[lawrocket 3]

Here's the thing about Yeager. He may have an ego and be arrogant but he can back up that arrogance.

Felix hasn't had he best reputation this last ten or fifteen years. But you know, we all tip our hat to him. His notoriety in our circle may have been the source of consternation but dammit, what he did was impressive, we all watched, the world watched. He performed in front of millions. More people in more places watched him than watched the last Shuttle launch.

I tip my hat for their accomplishments. I'm impressed that Yeager gave Kittinger props.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[airtwardo 6]

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Hi Jack,

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I believe this was a major mark in aviation history.

I have read the entirety of this thread & I am with you on this one.

Yeager, Col Joe, Felix all did something no one else did before. They each accomplished in their own way....

JerryBaumchen

Hi Jerry~

So if someone ELSE were to tomorrow break Felix's record by one centimeter higher, 1/100th of a KPH faster...they too have made a major mark in aviation history because no one ever did THAT?

My take is~
Col. Joe went pretty freakin' high in a balloon, pressure suit high...jumped out landed & lived. To me that's Major!

Following in his footsteps is certainly an accomplishment, besting his numbers with modern technology is significant...

I kinda reserve the 'major' mark in history for the Sir Edmund's of our species...the NO footprints leading where they're going types.


First freefall baton pass ~ Major
First 50 way ~ Significant, but not major...especially after the first 51way!


I could be wrong, but Col. Joe could be wearin' a BTDT tee-shirt and I sure wouldn't argue the point.

I guess I'm just harder to impress.




*BTW wasn't it actually Eugene Andreev (USSR) who held the official FAI record for the longest free-fall parachute jump after falling for (24,500 m) from an altitude of 83,523 ft ~ no drogue ~ in 1962?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Kalrigan 6]

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The bottom line here is that Yeager publically showed his contempt for someone who has just made a major mark in aviation history.

I’m not trying to diminish anything about Yeager’s great accomplishment of being the first man to go faster than sound or even his service in WWII. He is certainly an American Hero. But clearly he is trying to diminish everything about what Felix just did. Read what he said people!

Twardo, I too have met him on a few occasions. The first time was in the mid 1990’s when I was working for USPA. We were both speaking at the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum, during the NAA 10 Most Memorable Flights Awards Ceremonies. After the ceremonies, when we were introduced, he commented that I was one of those “stupid people that jump out of airplanes on purpose”. There I was, meeting an aviation legend, as an official representative of USPA and he called me stupid. I call that arrogance.

I have since met and observed him at Oshkosh. I have seen him ignore kids asking for autographs and walk away. I have seen the owner of a P-51 change the paint job of his airplane due to Yeager wanting royalties because the aircraft was painted like his WWII Mustang “Glamorous Glennis”. Other Warbird pilots that I know and respect tell me that Yeager’s head is too big for the cockpit.

If he’s arrogant and self promoting that’s one thing. When he dismisses other great aviation accomplishments that’s BS. Joe Kittenger even fell into the trap 10 years ago when he claimed that he went supersonic and had to retract it. At least Joe had the guts to step up, admit it and work with Felix to help him to become the first skydiver to go Mach 1+.

I have no problem giving respect to those of the past who did incredible things. But I do have a problem with those same people who won’t respect the achievements of the present.

100% agreed.

For someone who fought in WWII, Yeager's ego sure is fragile as hell. The guy is an ass, that's all there is to it. Never liked that arrogant prick.

[Amazon 7]

I ponder if its just a thing for germanic types... a holdover from War II where they were shooting at him.

[airtwardo 6]

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I ponder if its just a thing for germanic types... a holdover from War II where they were shooting at him.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Zenister 0]

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*BTW wasn't it actually Eugene Andreev (USSR) who held the official FAI record for the longest free-fall parachute jump after falling for (24,500 m) from an altitude of 83,523 ft ~ no drogue ~ in 1962?

THIS ^^^ I've been trying to explain for 3 days to wuffos why Felix really did break the longest freefall time even if the "record keepers" wont give it to him.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[airtwardo 6]

100% agreed.

For someone who fought in WWII, Yeager's ego sure is fragile as hell. The guy is an ass, that's all there is to it. Never liked that arrogant prick.

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I bet ya not liking him really keeps him up nights... frail ego will do that!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Kalrigan 6]

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100% agreed.

For someone who fought in WWII, Yeager's ego sure is fragile as hell. The guy is an ass, that's all there is to it. Never liked that arrogant prick.

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I bet ya not liking him really keeps him up nights... frail ego will do that!

Haha, oh you.

[Madison 0]

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We both apparently understand where Yeager is coming from. Big ego, self promoter, arrogant

Oh, you mean just like every skydiver out there?


It's Yeager.
He's old AND bold, so I think he gets to say whatever he wants!
He could care less if people view him as arrogant.
Would you care, if you were Yeager? I doubt it

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

[riddler 0]

I don't want to defend Yeager's comments at all, but I'm willing to give the guy a break, based solely on his age. When I watched my grandfather age, he went from being a stubborn old man to a righteous, indignant, cantankerous demented jerk.

OTOH, I wouldn't like the idea of someone like that piloting an F-15, either

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi riddler,

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When I watched my grandfather age, he went from being a stubborn old man to a righteous, indignant, cantankerous demented jerk.

I resemble that remark.



JerryBaumchen
AKA 'Gramps'

[ryoder 1,381]

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I don't want to defend Yeager's comments at all, but I'm willing to give the guy a break, based solely on his age. When I watched my grandfather age, he went from being a stubborn old man to a righteous, indignant, cantankerous demented jerk.

OTOH, I wouldn't like the idea of someone like that piloting an F-15, either

I'm pretty sure this is why the AN-2 was developed.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[riddler 0]

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I'm pretty sure this is why the AN-2 was developed.

If Yeager flew an AN-2 into the party, I would regain a lot of respect for him

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD