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skydiver30960

How would mankind react if the existence of extraterrestrial life was confirmed?

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Good stuff so far. I tend to agree that there has to be life out there. My gut feeling is that if they can talk to us, they're refraining from doing so because we're so damn uncivilized that they realize no good can come from it.

I also share Quade's opinion of the vast distances involved being a genuine barrier to even wildly more advanced societies. I marvel at our ability to observe our Universe (both macroscopic and microscopic) at scales that are completely outside our comprehension.

But, one can always hope...

Elvisio "nanu nanu" Rodriguez

EDIT TO ADD: Anyone else ever wonder if DNA is just the perfect embodiment of the idea of a Von Neumann Probe?

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I have a feeling you don't really grasp the distances involved and the speeds required to travel them in any time scale which makes sense for living beings.



Why would any alien beings be like us?

They could have a much longer lifespan.
They could be significantly smarter.
They could have been around millions of years longer and have significantly more advanced technology



I agree fully!

Quade~ I don't think ANYBODY understands the distances involved.

I do know it takes over 4 light years just to leave the gravitational influence of our solar systems star and that's absolutely nothing in regards to distance.

But I also know that as far a a technological species we're not even dinosaurs yet.

When I think that just over a century ago we figured out lift & drag to fly - and in less than 100 years later we were traveling in space. I have to believe that in 50 or 100 million years from now, at that rate of growth we'll have figured out how to at the very least more around our galaxy...maybe further.

2000 years ago had you tried to explain that man will harness the energy of the atom you would have been hung. 2000 years is nothing on the grand scale, is it such a stretch the imagine another life form with a few million or billion 'years' of development prior to our existence being able to do things we can't even conceive much less understand and apply 'our' physics to?

I realize that with our current understanding of things we see no way to travel at the required speeds in a machine, and that the energy needed to possibly bend 'warp' space to bring things closer is unrealistic...

...but THAT's this afternoon, 'this morning' we were working on the wheel.

I believe that putting 'our' understanding of limits on another possible form of life, that again is so far beyond our time in the box...is totally ludacris.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I have a feeling you don't really grasp the distances involved and the speeds required to travel them in any time scale which makes sense for living beings.



Why would any alien beings be like us?

They could have a much longer lifespan.
They could be significantly smarter.
They could have been around millions of years longer and have significantly more advanced technology



I agree fully!

Quade~ I don't think ANYBODY understands the distances involved.

I do know it takes over 4 light years just to leave the gravitational influence of our solar system's star and that's absolutely nothing in regards to distance.

But I also know that as far a a technological species we're not even dinosaurs yet.

When I think that just over a century ago we figured out lift & drag to fly - and in less than 100 years later we were traveling in space.

I have to believe that in 50 or 100 million years from now, at that rate of growth we'll have figured out how to at the very least move around our galaxy...maybe further.

2000 years ago had you tried to explain that man will harness the energy of the atom you would have been hung.

2000 years is nothing on the grand scale.

Is it such a stretch the imagine another life form with a few million or billion 'years' of development prior to our existence being able to do things we can't even conceive much less understand and apply 'our' physics to?

I realize that with our current understanding of things we see no way to travel at the required speeds in a machine, and that the energy needed to possibly bend 'warp' space to bring things closer is unrealistic...

...but THAT's this afternoon, 'this morning' we were working on the wheel.

I believe that putting 'our' understanding of limits on another possible form of life, that again is so far beyond our time in the box...is totally ludacris.












~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I have a feeling you don't really grasp the distances involved and the speeds required to travel them in any time scale which makes sense for living beings.


Why would any alien beings be like us?


Of the millions of life forms that have inhabited the Earth there is exactly one with the ability to make use of radios.

While it's entirely possible a planet could develop highly intelligent and sophisticated life, if they have any hope at contacting us or traveling in space, certain things will absolutely have to happen and I believe that limits our chances of contact either through radio or space travel.

For instance, let's say you're an intelligent dolphin species. Your species has language, philosophy and so on, however the one thing you don't have are hands. How the hell do they make a radio or space ship?

Even if these creatures try for millions of years, regardless of how smart or long their lifespans may be, that is a species which is never going to develop radios or space ships.

Okay, so rule #1 . . . they have to have something that functions as a hand and they're dexterous enough to use it to create tools and develop technology This isn't something they can wish into being no matter how smart they become, it has to be something they evolve into.

Look at everything it takes to develop radio and rocketry and eventually you end up with a remarkable number of things that will be REQUIRED of them to be sort of like us.

What's interesting is as soon as the aliens create technology, they pretty much stop evolving, since technology means they have far less need to evolve biologically. In fact, it's been bandied about lately the human race is actually DEvolving slightly due to technology. That we're not only less physically capable than what our ancestors were, but possibly even less mentally capable.

Okay, so let's say they maintain their intelligence, develop fantastic technology and are capable of interstellar flight.

Why visit Earth?

There would have to be a reason.

Earth, at interstellar distances, is pretty unremarkable. Even if Earth2 existed at Proxima Centauri, just a mere 4.5 light years away, it's highly unlikely we would even know it exists. Even with all our technology currently available to us today it just doesn't stand out.

Except in exactly ONE way; radio.

Radio is the key. Not intentional, but accidental. No radio or TV broadcast. No pictures of Hitler like in the movie "Contact," but instead military radars. Our aliens on another world are going to find us through those accidental transmissions that happen to find their way to them. They are realistically the only things powerful enough to stand out and make the planet look "interesting."

This also severely limits the radius at which Earth is "interesting" to about 70 light years.

While the Milky Way may contain billions and billions of stars and life may be spread all throughout it, only the area within 70 light years has any remote chance of knowing the Earth even exists. Unfortunately, when you add up the total number of solar systems within that range the odds of technological life drops quite a bit.

Beyond that, no matter how advanced the technology, they simply aren't going to be able to break the speed of light. Anything even remotely approaching it will require massive amounts of energy. "Star Trek" anti-matter is "fun." "Warp drives" are "fun." "Worm Holes" are "fun." That said, they all take more energy than the entire planet Earth currently produces. In fact, when you get up to worm holes, you're talking about more energy than a number of Suns would produce. It's not a matter of creating a new technology or making a new discovery. It's a matter of energy containment. The one thing Star Trek got right was if the containment fails, you're having a VERY bad day. The one thing they got very wrong was being able to contain it at all.

Ok, so let's say the aliens have figured out the way to contain the entire energy produced by an entire planet and pack it into a space ship.

Seriously? You're going to use that to visit Earth?

Why not send robots? They don't care how long it takes. The energy requirements drop to almost nothing (relatively speaking).

Sending living beings makes no sense whatsoever.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Maybe I'm just a dreamer Paul, but I still think that putting any kind or 'our' logic, understanding or limits of technology on another possibly more highly advanced species is taking an extremely myopic view of things.

Motivation or abilities for 'others' to travel & explore?

Who's to say...but simply taking from our own culture - it's what WE do...and we're getting better at it these past few thousand years.


As far as the Dolphins with PhD's but no hands...quite possible, ~ but remember it wasn't all THAT long ago here on our planet the fish grew feet and then quickly invented radar ovens!

That's what's so cool about not 'knowing' what is out there...we can 'dream' and the possibilities are limitless!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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...I don't mean what would happen if little green men came to Earth a-la The Day the Earth Stood Still or Independence Day because I think we'd all agree that we'd go completely xenophobic and make real asses of ourselves.



Mankind is well known for having an extreme case of multiple personalities.

'We' would do all sorts of things.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Maybe I'm just a dreamer Paul, but I still think that putting any kind or 'our' logic, understanding or limits of technology on another possibly more highly advanced species is taking an extremely myopic view of things.

Motivation or abilities for 'others' to travel & explore?

Who's to say...but simply taking from our own culture - it's what WE do...and we're getting better at it these past few thousand years.


As far as the Dolphins with PhD's but no hands...quite possible, ~ but remember it wasn't all THAT long ago here on our planet the fish grew feet and then quickly invented radar ovens!

That's what's so cool about not 'knowing' what is out there...we can 'dream' and the possibilities are limitless!



+1

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> In fact, it's been bandied about lately the human race is actually
>DEvolving slightly due to technology. That we're not only less physically
>capable than what our ancestors were, but possibly even less mentally
>capable.

We're evolving to fit a new niche. Centuries ago we needed to survive hunger and disease, and the fittest were the strongest and fastest; now we have to survive unlimited amounts of fatty food and sloth, and the fittest are the ones who can have the most kids under those circumstances. And we are indeed changing to adapt. You call it "devolving" because you don't like the direction it's going, but evolution doesn't have a direction; it just moves towards better adaptations to an environment.

> The one thing Star Trek got right was if the containment fails, you're having a
>VERY bad day. The one thing they got very wrong was being able to contain it at all.

Well, consider that we can currently contain (for a short time) a hydrogen fusion reaction. In 300 years that may be child's play.

>Ok, so let's say the aliens have figured out the way to contain the
>entire energy produced by an entire planet and pack it into a space ship.

>Seriously? You're going to use that to visit Earth?

Sure. A Space Shuttle launch exceeds the total yearly useful energy output of the USA circa 1780. And we use it to visit a space station that doesn't even have aliens on it. Vehicles that use even more energy have been used to put rovers on Mars. We use incredible (to a 1780's person) amounts of energy to visit the in-laws during Christmas.

We've already had serious proposals to launch interstellar probes. Project Daedalus would have sent a probe to Barnard's Star, and would have taken 50 years to arrive there. It used inertial confinement hydrogen fusion to accelerate to 12% of the speed of light,

Keep in mind that just the sunlight that falls on the planet could give us many orders of magnitude more power than we have today; we just have to harvest it. We don't need to find a new source, just new conversion tricks.

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Who's to say...but simply taking from our own culture - it's what WE do...and we're getting better at it these past few thousand years



Not necessarily Jim. It seems we're getting to the point where we are having trouble managing our rapid progress...

If we're to last another 50-100 million years (snicker) we're gonna have to get a little more practical and make some serious changes...namely, our consumptive attitude that fuels our hedonistic materialism.

...but don't take my word for it...here's a great documentary from Martin Scorsese featuring some brilliant minds:

Surviving Progress

Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DuampumYoc


Imdb:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1462014/

Netflix:
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Surviving_Progress/70235273?trkid=2361637
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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Not necessarily Jim. It seems we're getting to the point where we are having trouble managing our rapid progress...

If we're to last another 50-100 million years (snicker) we're gonna have to get a little more practical and make some serious changes...namely, our consumptive attitude that fuels our hedonistic materialism.



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Oh I know...and no snicker about it.

One good hit from an iceball and we're back to ground zero...not to mention what we do to ourselves.

But again, that's the cool thing about 'wondering'...it leads to trying.

We could if we wanted to make a better go of things here, spend the money we waste killing each other to defend this rock against eminent destruction from space junk...find energy that won't kill us & the planet, on & on.

I think that IF we ever got a telegram or a visit from points unknown...just something as simple as a "how YOU doin'?"...we'd be forced to give a collective WTF and refocus OUR efforts in a totally different direction.

So...do I think having some kind of concrete contact from and 'alien society' will have a drastic change on us?

Ya bet yer ass I do! B|


It would make a pretty sad statement about US if it didn't! ;)











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I think that IF we ever got a telegram or a visit from points unknown...just something as simple as a "how YOU doin'?"...we'd be forced to give a collective WTF and refocus OUR efforts in a totally different direction.

So...do I think having some kind of concrete contact from and 'alien society' will have a drastic change on us?

Ya bet yer ass I do! B|

It would make a pretty sad statement about US if it didn't! ;)



Maybe they have visited us, but when we speak with cliche terms like "angels" and "heaven" rather than "aliens" and "space" we tend to get laughed at and mocked.

What makes you think people would care enough to get all warm and fuzzy and change their lifestyle if they didn't like the message of this so called "telegram" that these "aliens" sent?
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

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What makes you think people would care enough to get all warm and fuzzy and change their lifestyle if they didn't like the message of this so called "telegram" that these "aliens" sent?



Could be it wouldn't, but it would certainly force a re-examination of 'our' place in the universe, and hopefully our priorities.

Warm & fuzzy...maybe, or perhaps scared shitless!

Fear is a greater motivator than fun...I think if nothing else it would centralize out focus & efforts outward instead of inward at each other.


We're inherently paranoid & violent at this point of our evolution...we would likely be concerned about that cookbook thing.

One of our smartest specimens, Steven Hawkins said it may not be such a grand idea putting a map to us on the deep space probes...sayin' in essence ~"This is the best we can do, here's what we look like and where we're at" may NOT have been the best idea strategically speaking.

Since the enemy of my enemy is my friend, I think were would see black, brown, white, red, yellow...as extremely more comforting than green.

I truly believe that society on this planet would change considerably...maybe not the way it will end up longer term but significantly none the less.

When 'we' have a larger more definitive set of universal planetary priorities our 'petty' differences might be set aside.

When 'for the common good' encompasses the entire planet instead of arbitrary lines drawn on a map it will be a VERY interesting time ~ to say the least!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Maybe they have visited us, but when we speak with cliche terms like "angels" and "heaven" rather than "aliens" and "space" we tend to get laughed at and mocked.



Well a) they're different things and b) people who claim they've been visited by aliens have far fewer supporters and more widespread mockery than people who claim to have seen angels. So, y'know, stop whining and grow a pair;)
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Fear is a greater motivator than fun...I think if nothing else it would centralize out focus & efforts outward instead of inward at each other.



"Fear" of future death, pain, loss of freedom, etc. is what sets us apart from other species. It's also the basis for many of our societal ills as this fear can be exploited and the the most valuable resource on earth, human labor, can be controlled.

We live in times where we are contantly being told about some thing we should fear..... can't say I've seen the human condition improve all that much as a result.

Sure, you hold a gun to someones head and you can change thier behavior. People will respond to fear as a stimulus... but it does not change our nature.

To paraphase a friend of mine on this subject, "the best thing aliens could do for earth upon arrival is to wipe out humans.".... I'm inclined to agree.[:/]

To the original question.... I think responses would be a mixed bag.

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...we'd have to be pretty conceded to think it didn't happen elsewhere.



I'll just have to give you that one. Not an argument I'd lie down on the tracks to fight. You win.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Sure, you hold a gun to someones head and you can change thier behavior. People will respond to fear as a stimulus... but it does not change our nature.

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When you change someone's behavior through fear, you do affect their nature...raising kids as an example.

Both personally and culturally, wars have proven that since the beginning of man's time here.











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I think we would try to kill them off.



Well, I don't think you've thought that through.

If you look at the history of the universe, we're pretty later comers to the game. Odds are any other civilization we could contact are at least as or, far more likely, far more advanced than we are.

Now, look at the history of the Earth and what happens when a more advanced civilization meets a lesser advanced one. Almost without exception, the lesser advanced civilization gets slaughtered.

We have no means whatsoever to travel to any other solar system, yet it's entirely possible (not likely, but possible) they have the means to travel to ours.

How, precisely, do you intend on killing them?



Do you truthfully think we're been visited already?



--------------------------------------------------------
Can you explain how primitive humans created the pyramids, stonehenge, and other engineering feats without help?




Slavery...it gets shit done.

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I think we would try to kill them off.



Well, I don't think you've thought that through.

If you look at the history of the universe, we're pretty later comers to the game. Odds are any other civilization we could contact are at least as or, far more likely, far more advanced than we are.

Now, look at the history of the Earth and what happens when a more advanced civilization meets a lesser advanced one. Almost without exception, the lesser advanced civilization gets slaughtered.

We have no means whatsoever to travel to any other solar system, yet it's entirely possible (not likely, but possible) they have the means to travel to ours.

How, precisely, do you intend on killing them?



With a gun!

If some other life form showed up on earth tomorrow we would probably "try" to kill it off. Not worth the risk of what it might do. It would be better to kill it off and study it than to wait and see what it does. Don't you ever watch movies?

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