skymama 35 #51 April 25, 2013 OMG, Bill and Mark agree on something. I think the world is about to go up in flames. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #52 April 25, 2013 Quote OMG, Bill and Mark agree on something. I think the world is about to go up in flames. You better hang on to your man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #53 April 25, 2013 Quote Quote OMG, Bill and Mark agree on something. I think the world is about to go up in flames. You better hang on to your man. That sounds like a threat . . . I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik 2 #54 April 25, 2013 QuoteI take GREAT issue with someone who hooks in under his new cross-braced but has no insurance. Engaging in risky behavior and hoping others will cover you if you break is not the sort of decisionmaking I will support. No, I will not pay for your healthcare when I wasn't jumping because I paid for my healthcare. I have to live with the consequences of my decisions. So should others who have money for jumping but none for insurance. This sport is NOT cheap, and someone who will spend $300 per weekend jumping has the scratch to pay for insurance. Given the amount of publicity in the UK about the necessity for comprehensive medical insurance cover for anyone who visits the US (even for a brief vacation or short business trip), I am a little surprised to see that any Brit has decided to work in skydiving in the US without arranging adequate insurance cover. I would have thought that part of the decision making process about whether working on a US DZ was financially viable would have taken account of insurance costs. Add uninsured to other factors such as rapid downsizing and any other kind of reckless behaviour is asking for trouble - and big bills. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #55 April 25, 2013 ...WHO ever said that the behavior in the "current case" ....... was "reckless".....?????are so many here, SO self centered ( that shit could NEVER happen to MEEEEEEEeee") that we have lost our sense of community and charity??? hell.. make ONE less skydive this weekend.. buy ONE less 12 pack... sheesh.......jimmytavino....OUT..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #56 April 25, 2013 Quote are so many here, SO self centered ( that shit could NEVER happen to MEEEEEEEeee") Actually, I feel like it's the exact opposite - people who are advocating being prepared are very well aware that "it could happen to me" and are advocating making choices that reflect that they acknowledge that reality. Ultimately, of course, it's up to each of us to decide if/when we want to donate to a fellow jumper in need; I don't think anyone's advocating that people not donate if they want to donate. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #57 April 25, 2013 QuoteI take GREAT issue with someone who hooks in under his new cross-braced but has no insurance.... This sport is NOT cheap, and someone who will spend $300 per weekend jumping has the scratch to pay for insurance. I see it all the time - Jumpers that do not have insurance, but always manage to have new gear and go to lots of boogies. Then they get hurt and claim they could not have afforded insurance. Well... that is just crap. They made a choice to have new gear and go to boogies instead of having insurance. Skydiving is an expensive sport, it is also a risky sport. You should consider health care as part of the cost of being involved in the sport. My wife has/can sell insurance. When she needed insurance, she was able to find it. When people claim they can't afford insurance she has found them insurance for 200-300/mth. They don't actually get it, they prefer to make 8-10 more jumps a month or drink beer."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #58 April 25, 2013 Besides employer sponsored health insurance what insurance do you think a jumper should have: I have life through work. Short term & long term disability. Business please insurance - not sure if that would do much. Going to be signing up for long term care insurance too."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #59 April 25, 2013 QuoteBesides employer sponsored health insurance what insurance do you think a jumper should have: Enough to pay to put them back together if/when they screw up. I jumped for years without short term disability.... I had long term -Have both for years now. But I have never jumped without having basic health insurance. It is irresponsible to spend thousands of dollars playing every year and not have basic health insurance."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #60 April 25, 2013 QuoteBesides employer sponsored health insurance what insurance do you think a jumper should have: I have life through work. Short term & long term disability. Business please insurance - not sure if that would do much. Going to be signing up for long term care insurance too. Good list - the value of life insurance will depend partly on whether you have dependents, of course. I pay for a relatively small life insurance policy because I don't have dependents, so the insurance will just go to my next of kin and can be used to clean up whatever mess I leave behind (but won't need to support anyone going forward). Short-term and long-term disability needs may vary depending on what other resources you have to tap into to support yourself in the event that you can no longer work to support yourself. For me, short-term disability comes automatically with my benefit package, and I choose to contribute for the max available long-term disability (60% of salary) because I don't want to have to completely gut my short- and long-term savings / retirement accounts to keep myself afloat."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #61 April 25, 2013 Quote>So I still do it - but for jumpers I know well. And I would not assume that if a jumper asks for money to defray medical costs, that it will actually go to medical costs. That's not a reason to not do it - they probably still need money especially if they have no other job. Just make sure you are OK with where your money was going. you have a good heart, Bill. But I wonder if you are really helping or hurting them in the long term. Either way, you're absolutely correct in the fact that you are doing it with your eyes wide open. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iluvtofly 0 #62 April 25, 2013 (Not directed directly at Iago, just last post on the thread.) But I would like to give a quick thank you to all the people who felt it necessary to drag the discussion that belonged in this thread to one that was put out there to try to help someone. Thanks to you it was requested by certain people close to the person that it be taken down due to the negative turn it had taken. Apparently no one can respect any sort of bad situation enough to keep discussions that don't belong in that thread separate. The fact that you felt it necessary to drag the topic of this thread into another for your own agenda is mind boggling. Thanks to you, and your need to bad mouth people who are injured when you don't know the full situation, many donations have probably been lost. I'm often amazed at the coldheartedness on this site, and the lack of thinking about how your post might hurt someone close to the person involved. This is rampant in the incident threads where it seems people can't seem help but bad mouth a person who is dead or gravely injured without thinking that friends and family might be reading that stuff. So thank you for having a hand in someway destroying some of my faith in humanity, and for convincing me that my decision to leave this site a few months ago was the correct one. If you want to discuss what I've said do so amongst yourselves, for I will not be bothering to read or reply to any responses. I'm done the obscene amount of immaturity and lack of general courtesy that runs rampant on this site anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik 2 #63 April 25, 2013 Quote ...WHO ever said that the behavior in the "current case" ....... was "reckless".....?????..... Well.. I was not suggesting that reckless behaviour has occured in this case (i have not seen anything specific to say there was).. but that people who dont have insurance and do reckless stuff ( like jumping in conditions that are not sensible for their experience and gear choices - and before anyone gets over-excited about this observation...i am just using this as an example) could be asking for financial trouble if they break themselves. That was my intended point.. Interesting comment about not buying a case of beer this weekend. I wonder how many cases of beer = the insurance premium that would provide reasonable insurance cover. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #64 April 25, 2013 it certainly is not the same as it was. Even when i was at logger heads with a whole bunch of people on here, they were generally not complete arsewipes Keyboard anonymity has created a generation of spineless fuckwits (not reserved to the younger crowd either)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #65 April 25, 2013 Quote ...WHO ever said that the behavior in the "current case" ....... was "reckless".....?????are so many here, SO self centered ( that shit could NEVER happen to MEEEEEEEeee") that we have lost our sense of community and charity??? hell.. make ONE less skydive this weekend.. buy ONE less 12 pack... sheesh.......jimmytavino....OUT..... +1 Yes I am Pot and Kettle . . . BUT . . . that said, I realize it, I admit it, and know that most of what I say is an attempt at humor and distraction. Y'all are a piece of work . . . seriously!There are some seriously self centered, self righteous, self important, holier than thou, self deluded people posting.If that fits you, don't get mad, just change it.Ha! Wow . . . Got this thread confused with the one about Andy. Still - I agree with what I said . . .I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #66 April 25, 2013 > But I wonder if you are really helping or hurting them in the long term. I realize that sometimes I'm hurting them, but I can't control the course of their lives. I can just help them out right there. On the flip side there are a few people out there who really need to break their femur. Not because I want them in pain, but because a broken femur seems to be the level of injury that a jumper takes seriously. It's painful, requires surgery (usually) and results in a long time on the ground - but in general heals just fine. And that broken femur might, in the long run, save their lives. Because without that much of a wake-up call they may keep pushing the limits without thinking about the consequences, and that final stupid mistake might happen under a Velocity 89 instead of a Pilot 140. So I'm a nice guy for helping them out financially (even though it may hurt them in the long run) and I'm a horrible person for hoping they injure themselves (even though it may save their lives.) Maybe those two things balance out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #67 April 26, 2013 Quote are so many here, SO self centered ( that shit could NEVER happen to MEEEEEEEeee") Quite the opposite. There are many of us who say, "this can happen to me. I better plan for it and get some insurance." It's those who say "this can't happen to meeeeee" (even if it has already happened) are the ones that I have a problem with. You are proving the point. I never called it self-centered or egocentric but, hey, maybe you're on to something. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #68 April 26, 2013 Quote OMG, Bill and Mark agree on something. I think the world is about to go up in flames. You know there's been a significant disturbance in the force when I post in a thread these days, instead of just lurking.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #69 April 26, 2013 My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #70 April 26, 2013 QuoteQuoteI take GREAT issue with someone who hooks in under his new cross-braced but has no insurance.... This sport is NOT cheap, and someone who will spend $300 per weekend jumping has the scratch to pay for insurance. I see it all the time - Jumpers that do not have insurance, but always manage to have new gear and go to lots of boogies. Then they get hurt and claim they could not have afforded insurance. Well... that is just crap. They made a choice to have new gear and go to boogies instead of having insurance. Skydiving is an expensive sport, it is also a risky sport. You should consider health care as part of the cost of being involved in the sport. My wife has/can sell insurance. When she needed insurance, she was able to find it. When people claim they can't afford insurance she has found them insurance for 200-300/mth. They don't actually get it, they prefer to make 8-10 more jumps a month or drink beer. I freely admit that the insurance situation may have/probably has changed substantially since I moved out of the US 6.5 years ago, but at that point I was paying $80/mo for insurance (for a male, 25, single, no kids). It didn't cover checkups. It didn't cover glasses. It didn't cover day to day shit. It covered me fucking myself up in ways I couldn't afford to fix myself. I didn't call Progressive when my car needed an oil change, I wasn't going to call my health insurance company when I needed my blood pressure checked.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #71 April 26, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteI take GREAT issue with someone who hooks in under his new cross-braced but has no insurance.... This sport is NOT cheap, and someone who will spend $300 per weekend jumping has the scratch to pay for insurance. I see it all the time - Jumpers that do not have insurance, but always manage to have new gear and go to lots of boogies. Then they get hurt and claim they could not have afforded insurance. Well... that is just crap. They made a choice to have new gear and go to boogies instead of having insurance. Skydiving is an expensive sport, it is also a risky sport. You should consider health care as part of the cost of being involved in the sport. My wife has/can sell insurance. When she needed insurance, she was able to find it. When people claim they can't afford insurance she has found them insurance for 200-300/mth. They don't actually get it, they prefer to make 8-10 more jumps a month or drink beer. I freely admit that the insurance situation may have/probably has changed substantially since I moved out of the US 6.5 years ago, but at that point I was paying $80/mo for insurance (for a male, 25, single, no kids). It didn't cover checkups. It didn't cover glasses. It didn't cover day to day shit. It covered me fucking myself up in ways I couldn't afford to fix myself. I didn't call Progressive when my car needed an oil change, I wasn't going to call my health insurance company when I needed my blood pressure checked. If the government and employers would get out of the health insurance business and people bought insurance for what they needed it for the whole insurance/health care issue would be solved in this country. I bet your employer didn't help you get your car insurance either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #72 April 26, 2013 "I'm often amazed at the coldheartedness on this site, and the lack of thinking about how your post might hurt someone close to the person involved. This is rampant in the incident threads where it seems people can't seem help but bad mouth a person who is dead or gravely injured without thinking that friends and family might be reading that stuff." There's rose colored glasses and then there's reality. Assholes become saints when they get injured? I don''t think so. Man up. Laying down guilt trips does not help.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #73 April 26, 2013 Lets keep the political arguments out of this thread but insurance for major events is not that expensive and tends to be around $100 a month or so for most people if they look around.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 38 #74 April 26, 2013 Quote Lets keep the political arguments out of this thread but insurance for major events is not that expensive and tends to be around $100 a month or so for most people if they look around. And this is exactly why many responsible jumpers have a problem with those who roll the dice and then cry "foul," when they get snake eyes. lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #75 April 26, 2013 ....are there any Obama Care experts out there ? Will the up coming roll out help out certain types of jumpers ? I'll admit i know nothing about the new Gov plans...i am curious thosmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
