Definitions of theft - random musings

[PixieUK 0]

Because I'm bored with tedious paperwork today......

We have free-vend tea and coffee at work, supplied from vending machines. We also have mini cartons of UHT milk and sachets of sugar supplied for those who bring their own supplies of tea and coffee.

I watched someone put some sugar into his tea, then pick up two cartons of milk and walk back towards his desk. No problem with that - then a random thought struck me.

If he didn't actually put the milk into his tea when he got back to his desk, but put them in his pocket and took them home instead, would that be theft?

He is entitled to take the milk, he is entitled to drink it, is it legally / morally wrong for him to take it home? (I'm not suggesting in any way that he was going to do that, it was just a random thought that occurred to me!!)

I have some thoughts on that but was curious to see what other people think (assuming anyone else is also bored )

Edit: Just to add, by mini-cartons, I mean about a couple of teaspoons of milk, not half pints!

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[airdvr 197]

Absolutely it's theft. No one is going to jail. It has to do with intent. The supplier gives you those supplies. Their intent is for everyone to share. It's a goodwill gesture. It's understood by all, or at least it should be.

On the plus side you now have a good idea of your co-worker's intentions and can act accordingly.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[JohnMitchell 14]

Like most DZ's, we have a beer fridge. Have a beer or two at the end of the day. But grab 3-4 to take home, or load up your cooler? Not cool, but some do it.

[PixieUK 0]

I think possibly you've misunderstood - the mini cartons hold a few ml of milk, so for a normal mug of tea or coffee, most people would use 2.

I've edited my post to clarify.

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[NorrinRadd 0]

THe milk is intended to be shared by all. By taking it and keeping it for onesself, I believe it is theft. Obviously no-one will go to jail for it, but it is still pretty shoddy form.

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[airdvr 197]

PixieUK

I think possibly you've misunderstood - the mini cartons hold a few ml of milk, so for a normal mug of tea or coffee, most people would use 2.

I've edited my post to clarify.

You're referring to something like these?

http://www.webofficemart.com/Products/Mini-Moos-Half-and-Half--5-oz--24Box__MMO100981.aspx?ref=google&source=google&utm_medium=shopping_engine&utm_source=google&mkwid=wWoaapIe&pcrid=25412354109&gclid=CKDrqoyIt7kCFXRp7AodoTEAFQ

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[PixieUK 0]

airdvr

***I think possibly you've misunderstood - the mini cartons hold a few ml of milk, so for a normal mug of tea or coffee, most people would use 2.

I've edited my post to clarify.

You're referring to something like these?

http://www.webofficemart.com/Products/Mini-Moos-Half-and-Half--5-oz--24Box__MMO100981.aspx?ref=google&source=google&utm_medium=shopping_engine&utm_source=google&mkwid=wWoaapIe&pcrid=25412354109&gclid=CKDrqoyIt7kCFXRp7AodoTEAFQ

Yes, those

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[tigra 0]

You really are bored, aren't you? I guess I am too! Lol

Where I work, they used to provide bottled water in individual bottles. In addition to drinking the water while I was working, I would routinely grab one for my ride home or to take to the gym with me. Most people did this. I don't think the company had a problem with it. I once saw a co-worker take an entire case-24 bottles- home for the weekend because she was having a party. She saw nothing wrong with that! Even worse, she made one of our male co-workers her accomplice because she couldn't carry it by herself! Now we have water coolers instead of individual bottles.

[skydiver30960 0]

I'm going to have a hard time giving shit to someone for pocketing a couple creamers. The average worker's wasted productivity due to Facebook alone totally eclipses the cost of such pilfered nondairy products.

I can see the point of some above that any theft is that: theft. I also think we can reasonably draw a line somewhere to say at what point a company should begin to get concerned. While I can't say exactly where that line is, I'm guessing a couple creamer packets is below that line rather than over it.

And for the record, I'm not posting from work!

Elvisio "master of 24 hour shifts" Rodriguez

[Krip 2]

JohnMitchell

Like most DZ's, we have a beer fridge. Have a beer or two at the end of the day. But grab 3-4 to take home, or load up your cooler? Not cool, but some do it.

This is serious

One Jump Wonder

[Backintothesky 0]

Wow, you must have been SOOO bored today!

PixieUK

Because I'm bored with tedious paperwork today......

We have free-vend tea and coffee at work, supplied from vending machines. We also have mini cartons of UHT milk and sachets of sugar supplied for those who bring their own supplies of tea and coffee.

I watched someone put some sugar into his tea, then pick up two cartons of milk and walk back towards his desk. No problem with that - then a random thought struck me.

If he didn't actually put the milk into his tea when he got back to his desk, but put them in his pocket and took them home instead, would that be theft?

He is entitled to take the milk, he is entitled to drink it, is it legally / morally wrong for him to take it home? (I'm not suggesting in any way that he was going to do that, it was just a random thought that occurred to me!!)

I have some thoughts on that but was curious to see what other people think (assuming anyone else is also bored )

Edit: Just to add, by mini-cartons, I mean about a couple of teaspoons of milk, not half pints!

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

If it was the powered variety, I'd be secretly constructing a mythbusters-style creamer cannon for the day I'm laid off or decide to submit my resignation -- via creamer cannon! Muahahahahahahah!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[ryoder 1,382]

FlyingRhenquest

If it was the powered variety, I'd be secretly constructing a mythbusters-style creamer cannon for the day I'm laid off or decide to submit my resignation -- via creamer cannon! Muahahahahahahah!

I had to look that up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRw4ZRqmxOc

Essentially, a thermobaric weapon using compressed air and non-dairy powdered coffee creamer.
I wonder how the mfgr feels about people weaponizing their product.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[oldwomanc6 38]

My personal definition of theft is: " depriving someone of something that is rightfully theirs."

All employers expect that those little tubs of creamer are "gimmies" to their employees to use at work, or at home if they work there.

Do you work at home? EVER? Then, not stealing.

Taking home cases of the stuff or other excessive abuse IS STEALING!

NEW QUESTION! Is taking toiletries and coffee (even Keurig) that you don't use from the hotel room stealing?
It's there for your use, right?

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[BIGUN 1,053]

It's not theft; but it is pilfering.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[PixieUK 0]

oldwomanc6

My personal definition of theft is: " depriving someone of something that is rightfully theirs."

All employers expect that those little tubs of creamer are "gimmies" to their employees to use at work, or at home if they work there.

Do you work at home? EVER? Then, not stealing.

Taking home cases of the stuff or other excessive abuse IS STEALING!

Your reasoning is similar to mine - taking cases of anything - like the water or beer other people mentioned, is definitely stealing.

oldwomanc6

NEW QUESTION! Is taking toiletries and coffee (even Keurig) that you don't use from the hotel room stealing?
It's there for your use, right?

I would say that's slightly different, in that you've paid for the room and those toiletries are included in the price. If you choose not to use them, that's up to you, but it's not as though you have the option to steal twenty bottles of each (unless you raid the cleaning lady's trolley, lol

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[turtlespeed 212]

PixieUK

***My personal definition of theft is: " depriving someone of something that is rightfully theirs."

All employers expect that those little tubs of creamer are "gimmies" to their employees to use at work, or at home if they work there.

Do you work at home? EVER? Then, not stealing.

Taking home cases of the stuff or other excessive abuse IS STEALING!

Your reasoning is similar to mine - taking cases of anything - like the water or beer other people mentioned, is definitely stealing.

oldwomanc6

NEW QUESTION! Is taking toiletries and coffee (even Keurig) that you don't use from the hotel room stealing?
It's there for your use, right?

I would say that's slightly different, in that you've paid for the room and those toiletries are included in the price. If you choose not to use them, that's up to you, but it's not as though you have the option to steal twenty bottles of each (unless you raid the cleaning lady's trolley, lol

As long as you don't go to Walmart, buy a tent and camping equipment, then after spending some time using the stuff, return it and go back home overseas . . .

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[oldwomanc6 38]

mrowc6 and I stay at hotels A LOT.

Every day all that stuff that is in the room goes into my suitcase; shampoo, conditioner, sewing kits, packets of Q-tips, shower caps, etc... ALL OF IT. It shows up like magic every day. I take it all. In some hotels there is an amazing amount of personal-sized items!

Excessive? Maybe, but I do it for a reason.

After I collect a box or two of the stuff, I take it to the local women's shelter. You'd think it was gold from the way the ladies react. Now, they greet me with big smiles. Makes my day!

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[Squeak 17]

[Quote]
As long as you don't go to Walmart, buy a tent and camping equipment, then after spending some time using the stuff, return it and go back home overseas . . .
It was a boogie in a different State, and I returned it to my local Kmart store, because a pole snapped whilst at the boogie. I did ask for a refund though and not s replacement

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[oldwomanc6 38]

Squeak

[Quote]
As long as you don't go to Walmart, buy a tent and camping equipment, then after spending some time using the stuff, return it and go back home overseas . . .

It was a boogie in a different State, and I returned it to my local Kmart store, because a pole snapped whilst at the boogie. I did ask for a refund though and not s replacement

Well, a replacement wouldn't have been nearly as handy as a refund. It probably would have cost you more than the stuff was worth to pay the extra baggage fee!

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[hcsvader 1]

Quote

As long as you don't go to Walmart, buy a tent and camping equipment, then after spending some time using the stuff, return it and go back home overseas . . .

Ive done this, pretty sure I got the idea from these forums.

To be fair tho the tent was way too big for me and the cooler didnt keep ice for more than a couple days.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[ryoder 1,382]

Squeak

[Quote]
As long as you don't go to Walmart, buy a tent and camping equipment, then after spending some time using the stuff, return it and go back home overseas . . .

It was a boogie in a different State, and I returned it to my local Kmart store, because a pole snapped whilst at the boogie. I did ask for a refund though and not s replacement

Same thing happened to me at the Nationals one year;
Bought a tent just before driving out there;
Stupid thing snapped a pole before the week was over;
So I took it back for a refund when I got home.
I didn't have any confidence in a piece of junk that couldn't even last a week.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Definition of theft? Easy - dishonestly appropriating property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive - Section 1(1) Theft Act 1968.

To apply that to your scenario:

He appropriates the property (the milk) which belongs to another (the employer) simply by picking it up and walking off with it in his possession.

He does this dishonestly as he is permitted to take the milk for use in the office, not to take it home. He may have a defence if he holds an honest belief that the owner would consent to his action or an honest belief that he has a right to lawfully appropriate the property by virtue of the fact they're sat their free to take.

He has the intention to permanently deprive the lawful owner of the property as he is going to drink the milk.

It's technically also potentially a burglary under s.9 if he enters the part of the building with the milk in it as a trespasser (his licence to enter the part of the building with the milk in it extends to working there/making himself tea etc, not stealing their milk, thus making him a trespasser if he forms the dishonest intent to take the milk prior to entry to the part of the building where the milk is).

Arguably if, at the time he appropriates the property (picks it up and walks off with it), he has no dishonest intent as he is going to use it at his desk, and then only subsequently forms the dishonest intent to take the milk home, he may not have committed a theft as the dishonest intent and appropriation have to occur in tandem.

[MikeJD 0]

oldwomanc6

After I collect a box or two of the stuff, I take it to the local women's shelter. You'd think it was gold from the way the ladies react.

We actually used to operate a scheme at work like that - lots of people are working away from home, so there are lots of toiletries to be had. Maybe management decided to stop it because somebody asked this very question - whether or not we were encouraging 'theft'
Whatever, this is real Robin Hood stuff and nobody could possibly condemn you for it!

Personally I don't use the hotel toiletries anyway - I just bring my own. Theirs are too teensy.