Dieting/nutrition/work out help!

[BETO74 0]

Try to go with Paleo meals and Crossfit a lot. quit the globo gyms! best advice I was given ! I cheat once a week usually Sundays the quantity depends on what you want buildup or lose weight

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[shropshire 0]

Whoopee completed my 1st road 1/2 yesterday 2:26:33 (@54y.o!!) without a single supplement

My takes on diets and stuff..... CUT THE CRAP.

High Carb ..vs.. Low Carb. Should I eat Loads of Protein or be a Vegie/vegan? There are several sides to this story (and more cropping up all the time as new experts come along) ...... Matt Frazier, (the No Meat Athlete) and a lot of other Ultra-Athletes - claim a lot of success with Vegie/vegan diets .... So, can both side be right? Sure they can, the answer (I guess) is in BALANCE - Stay away from the CR*P (mass processed non-food stuffs) and eat REAL FOOD. Is there A right answer ... NO - there are MANY of them.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[DrDom 0]

dont rely on milk to improve bone health,

http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[rocketdog 0]

I've not heard much about the paleo trend, but why is dairy a negative thing out of curiosity? I appreciate your advice but i barely get any dairy except for Greek yogurt...

A big barrier to the dietary change has been that i live in small town Ohio. Not many farmers markets, no jungle jims, no fresh seafood. we're all corn feed here lol. Hmmm so many view points ) much appreciated, again) but I'm still seeking more info re: cutting a meal and supplementing.

Thanks everyone. Keep the debate going

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[grue 1]

rocketdog

but I'm still seeking more info re: cutting a meal and supplementing.

I'd advise against that. You're more likely to eat more than you planned at the next meal. Have many small meals instead of just a couple normal ones.

cavete terrae.

[msf 0]

I can share my experience... I have several friends who have tried this too with great results. I also know people that don't do well on meal replacements.. I do think it's a very individual thing to your personality and body.

I started slowly with meal replacement shakes for breakfast only. It wasn't long before I switched to meal replacements for breakfast and lunch 5 days per week (on weekends, I would usually do a replacement for breakfast and then eat lunch and dinner). After about 2 months, and for the last year, I do meal replacement shakes for 14 out of 21 meals per week (breakfast and lunch every day). I've never felt better, have tons more energy, and have lost 50 lbs. I'm down around 174 lbs - I haven't been that slim since high school (decades ago).

Protein shakes and meal replacement shakes are not the same thing. Protein shakes typically do not have a balanced nutrient content and are used to supplement protein needs. Real meal replacement shakes have a balance of fat, protein and carbs as well as other vitamins, minerals and small things like that you need to live and be healthy.

For meal replacement shakes, I use Isagenix (Isalean Shakes and Isalean Pro with extra protein for work-out days). I have friends who also have good results on Muscle Milk. MM has more fat, and is sweeter - for me, it makes me crave sweet things where Isagenix doesn't. I also don't get hungry on Isagenix.

My routine is simple: meal replacement shake for breakfast and lunch. In the afternoon, I have some fruit (usually 2 servings worth). For dinner, 5 nights per week I eat steamed or roasted veggies and lean protein (usually fish, shrimp or scallops - also simply cooked either baked, steamed or seared). Two nights per week I end up eating out or getting something delivered.

Exercise, I try to burn 3500-4000 calories in hard cardio. For me, that's 2 1-hour workouts and 3 30 minute workouts. When you add cool-down time, I do cardio about 4 hours per week.

That's my routine for the last year. 50 lbs down, all new clothes TWICE, and feel better than ever. I was on meds for hypertension; been off of those for 10 months now as well (definitely weigh related).

Good luck in what you choose (and again - watch out - big difference between meal replacement and plain protein shakes - meal replacements can have lots of protein AND also contain other nutrients; as opposed to supplement-only protein shakes).

[FreeFallFiend 0]

Where are you in Ohio? I might be able to point you to some good food resources.

I have been doing crossfit for about a year and tend to "make paleo decisions." That means I am not strict paleo but try to be when possible.

Crossfit isnt for everyone, but the reason I bring it up because i have seen measurable results for myself, but more importantly everyone at my gym is a nutrition nut so we get to compare notes and see what works.

The biggest difference you can make right now is trying to get as many "whole" foods and "clean" foods. Foods that dont have many ingredients or additives. Typically the fewer ingredients the higher the nutritional/biological value. (BV) You want to eat foods that have a high BV so you get what the body needs and your body isnt trying to break down stuff it was meant too. Speaking of which going paleo made me realize I was lactose and gluten intolerant. Its not an allergy, i can still eat them, but they dont agree with my GI system. For years and years i just assumed I had a weak stomach and was even diagnosed with IBS. I cut out the gluten and no problems anymore. Gluten intolerance isnt common...but more common than you think. That being said gluten causes people to bloat a bit even it they arent intolerant. Cutting it out for a couple weeks makes most people look a bit leaner immediately.

So what foods do you want? Focus on foods with a high nutritional value, or BV. The highest out there is Whey Protein Isolate. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread there is no real reason to take protein shakes. Which is true...you dont need to...unless you need to. If you find a good protein shake that's main ingredient is whey isolate and it doesnt have a lot of sugars or additives then there is nothing wrong with supplementing your diet with it. You're going to get good quality fast absorbing protein with high nutritional value. Eggs are another food that has an incredibly high BV. Beef is also up there, but you have to be careful because beef an be calorie dense as well as fatty. Ideally you want naturally raised grass fed beef.

I could go on and on and on...but it's too much to start. What I would suggest to start with is experimenting with trying new stuff and cutting old stuff. Everyone's body is unique and you are not going to know what works for you until you try it out. Maybe try a couple weeks without gluten or dairy and add in more leafy greens, nuts, beef, seafood, fruits and see what happens. If nothing happens maybe slowly add some gluten back in and see if you notice anything now. Also try to eat less processed foods and more whole foods.

Last advice...plan plan plan! If you plan your day in advance its easy! If you dont its easy to make bad or not good decisions. Plan out your breakfast, lunch, dinner, as well as snacks in between. Going out to eat? Look at the menu online before hand so you know what your opts are and have time to make an informed decision.

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[DrDom 0]

I just can not possibly as a physician recommend a meal substitute. You're going from natural materials to factory-made "stuff" most of which your body can not even properly absorb. We have a saying, and I'll stop harping on this if its annoying:

Expensive vitamins make expensive urine
Expensive Meal Supplements make expensive stool

your mileage may vary. Eating real food will do you better for a lifetime. But what do I know?

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[rocketdog 0]

MSF~ Thanks! Sorry for my delay, but that was very helpful & insightful. Any awful side effects to the Isagenix that you're aware of? Just don't want to go on the Kim Kardashian diet pills haha. Wonderful starting point though -- thanks again!

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[mattjw916 2]

healthy diet that varies wildly, cardio of varying intensity, ephedrine, caffeine, reduce alcohol consumption to almost zero...

about 25lbs down from my lifetime max now but lost some muscle along the way, oh well...

no crazy/trendy diets here

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Nataly 38]

Haven't read all the replies and this may not be what you are looking for... Of all the things I have seen that help improve your body shape, pilates has consistently amazed and impressed me. Gives a very targeted workout for toned (yet feminine) and defined muscles. The best transformations I have seen (from people I actually know) have been attributed to pilates.

FWIW.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[davjohns 1]

You seem to be starting out with good info.

Diet is at least half the battle. Depends on your past eating habits and personal discipline. For some people, diet is absolutely the hardest part.

Casein is indeed a slow metabolizing protein. I use only Gold Standard. In my opinion and that of many others, it is the best quality protein.

Because it is slow digesting, I recommend that you use cassein right before bed. It will give your system something to work on during the night that is virtually impossible to store as fat and will assist your recuperation. During the day, whey protein (still Gold Standard) is much preferable.

Try to spread your nutrition over six to seven meals during a day. This increases metabolism and prevents getting hungry. When you get hungry, you are more likely to consume carbs. If you want to get lean, carbs kill. Try to restrict carbs to veggies and limited complex carbs.

Water!!! I average about a gallon per day. Water has so many benefits to health and getting lean that it would take a while to lay out.

Your workout plan confuses me. You work arms and abs, but only do cardio for the rest of your body? I would definitely look for a more holistic approach.

If all you want is to drop a little and look leaner, diet alone could get you there, but it is much easier with regular cardio. It counter-acts the body's natural reaction of lowering the BMR when you reduce caloric intake or availability.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[msf 0]

None that I've heard of! :-)

[davjohns 1]

Sorry. Just saw the stuff on Meal Replacement Shakes. I supplement with protein, but never use MRS. The most I ever used them was when i was away from whole foods (in the field). That was just because there was nothing better. In general, lean meat (minimal red meat), all the veggies you want (frozen and canned are better than "fresh" and green leafies are generally best), and moderate complex carbs will do you good. Avoid sauces, bread, sugars, and obviously fatty foods. Although you need certain fats, it is hard to get too little fat in your diet.

I take a quality multi-vitamin / multi-mineral supplement. Its not necessary for most people. The demands I put on my body aren't 'average' so I take a supplement purely as insurance against something missing in my diet.

On a typical day:

Whey protein on rising. Supplement packet. 5g creatine and 10g glutamine added to protein.

Breakfast - Six boiled egg whites. 1 cup oats. Piece of fruit. Skim milk.

Mid morning - Whey protein. Possibly a piece of fruit.

Lunch - Lean meat. Two veggies.

Mid afternoon - Whey protein.

Dinner - Lean meat. Two or three veggies. Maybe a salad. Romaine; not iceberg.

Before bed - Casein protein.

About a gallon of water throughout the day.

This is much more protein than the typical person needs. But generally, the typical three meals with a lean meat and a couple of veggies and healthy snacks in between meals will set you right.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Exercise, I try to burn 3500-4000 calories in hard cardio. For me, that's 2 1-hour workouts and 3 30 minute workouts.

What kind of cardio are you diong that gets you to 4,000 calories in 3.5 hours?

[msf 0]

I did splurge and have an ARC trainer at home (AT770 model - the big commercial one). It's really just a fancy elliptical. I hit 1100 calories in a 60 minute workout consistently, and can do a little better (average cal per time) on my shorter 30 minute sessions.

Yes, it is working HARD for me to have that kind of calorie burn. I do interval sessions - each cycle is 4 minutes, ramping up each minute for 4 minutes. HR average is around 145 for the low minute, and 175 for the high minute. Obviously, 175 is high and I wouldn't recommend people normally exercise at that level without getting a stress test, talking to their doctor, and ideally knowing their VO2 Max.

[msf 0]

REALLY depends on your goals.

I think one thing that many people miss is that not all meal replacement shakes are the same. There are many that are full of artificial crap that I wound't touch. Slim-Fast, for example. Given the choice of slim-fast or a fast food burger, I'll go for the burger. That said, given the choice of a high quality MRS without chemical additives, I'd go for the MRS. There are a few brands I would use; for the last year, I'm 100% on Isagenix (and no, I don't sell it although they do have a marketing model that benefits those that do).

The second thing that people miss is the MRS vs. meal plans vs. other supplements is HIGHLY personal depending on your physiology, goals, and personal habits. No change of habits works if you can't or don't change with them. For me, MRS is a huge convenience and works for me. I also get less hungry vs. when I used to try to do healthy meals. So, for me it works.

Also, for me, I wouldn't touch a creatine supplement. Not that they are wrong, but they don't match my goals. I'm primarily interested in endurance and not mass or strength. The weight loss is incidental to my real goals on endurance (and my ability to go up a 5,800 foot mountain in less than 3 hours now, vs the 5-6 hours it used to take me). Not saying creatine is bad - it's very good for some goals.

I think it's great for people to see examples of programs that work; for them to work to understand WHY and HOW they work, and then choose the right program for them.

That's my .02!

[SkyDekker 1,121]

msf

I did splurge and have an ARC trainer at home (AT770 model - the big commercial one). It's really just a fancy elliptical. I hit 1100 calories in a 60 minute workout consistently, and can do a little better (average cal per time) on my shorter 30 minute sessions.

Yes, it is working HARD for me to have that kind of calorie burn. I do interval sessions - each cycle is 4 minutes, ramping up each minute for 4 minutes. HR average is around 145 for the low minute, and 175 for the high minute. Obviously, 175 is high and I wouldn't recommend people normally exercise at that level without getting a stress test, talking to their doctor, and ideally knowing their VO2 Max.

Ah ok. I am going to say that your calories are seriously overstated then, if you go by what the machine is telling you.

To put it into perspective. Running is one of the most calorie intesive forms of exercise. General guideline is 100 calories per mile run. You would have to run 11 miles in an hour, which is extremely close to world elite level pace.

That calorie count is gross, meaning it includes the calories you would have burnt doing nothing sitting on the couch.

My guess is you are severaly over estimating your calories burnt.

[DougH 270]

Get a good blender, make your own meal replacement shakes.

Mine use a variety of different stuff.

For breakfast I had one that had kale, unsweetend almond milk, chia seeds (high in fiber and omega 3's!, filling too), straw berries, wild blue berries, some macadamia nuts, vanilla whey protein powder.

With a good blender the kale is actually very good. The whole thing is packed with good nutrients.

I don't diet much, but I like reading diet books for healthy diet information. Really good one I like right now is the aztec diet. Mainly because it had a lot of information about food choice, and information on suposed super foods that were new to me like chia seeds, and quonia.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[davjohns 1]

Ummm....kale? And what the heck are chia seeds? Don't those come with a Chiapet? And you eat them? Does your butt sprout those little plant things during the night? Gross!

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[DougH 270]

I don't eat my veggies well, but I can blend them. Kale is killer in terms of nutrients and antioxidants.

Chia seeds are exactly what grows on the chia seeds. You can laugh all you want, the amount of fiber and omega threes in these things are amazing.
I get them already milled up, they don't taste like anything. And they thicken up shakes, makes it more filling.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[msf 0]

As long as you accurately input your weight, it is very accurate (which I do). I'm by no means an athlete but do have very good cardio output. My results are consistent on the ARC trainer vs measurements on a treadmill (commercial). I think one key point you might be missing is that when you add an incline component to the elliptical motion, you are seriously increasing the calorie burn and workout intensity (hence, the intervals).

I think it is a VERY fair point that performance on machines vs performance real world doesn't match one to one, but if a good quality machine is used properly you do get accurate results (+/-5%). That's my experience and seems to be correlated by other past assessment measures I've done. Frankly, 1000 calories per hour is NOT that amazing when you consider heart rate. If I were to stick at a fat-burning 120 or so range, my calorie burn would be MUCH less - probably around 800 or 850 for the hour.

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

grue

***
Things that cause cancer: obesity, high-fructose-corn-syrup, casein, red meat, anything "charred", and cigarettes. There are more but that helps.

Things that cause suicide from boredom:

Life without cheese and grilled red meat.

DrDom, do you believe the things you mentioned also cause breast cancer?

Always be kinder than you feel.

[FreeFallFiend 0]

rocketdog

MSF~ Thanks! Sorry for my delay, but that was very helpful & insightful. Any awful side effects to the Isagenix that you're aware of? Just don't want to go on the Kim Kardashian diet pills haha. Wonderful starting point though -- thanks again!

Isagenix is what I use as well and am a HUGE fan. I've only done the strict 30 day program twice (and it works VERY well) but I use their Meal Replacement Shakes and other supplements regularly throughout the year.

If you want to know more, and from a jumpers perspective, contact Clair Crawford aka BASEgirl. She is a very successful dealer and the one that got me started. She has tons of information on the products, a healthy lifestyle, and finding something that meets each persons individual athletic needs. She also provides coaching, advice, and support free of charge.

Clair is also a good friend of mine so feel free to PM me if you want an intro.

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.