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johnnyboy

Newbie with gear questions. Help! :)

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Hello everyone,

I am new to this sport...only 18 jumps, but I am ready to buy a rig. The last 2 times I went to my DZ, the rental rig that fits me was being shared with other jumpers so I only fit in 1 jump each day. Regardless, here are my questions/dilemmas: I am looking at used gear and I want to know what to buy. I have been flying a Z-Po 210 which I enjoy. I was also told that a Spectre would do me good as well. I am terrible under canopy, so I need something very forgiving but fun at the same time for the next few years.
I am looking at used gear here at this site, and I dont exactly know what to look for as far as canopies and containers. Ideally, I would buy a javelin or mirage (i hear those are nice), a spectre 190 and a pd-reserve 218, with a cypres of course. However, I think it would be foolish of me (and it would wipe out my financial aid) to buy new gear so early in this sport. Used is my best choice. But when I look at the classifieds, I have no clue what to get. What really spawned this posting was after I had found a rig and told my instructor about it, which he told me the container was a "pilot-chute trap." I really dont want a horeshoe malfunction, so I am turning to you all great people to give me some advice:
What can I buy that will have the least amount of malfunctions, very forgiving under canopy, and freefly friendly (i plan to learn to freefly one of these days>....probably after I learn to belly-fly :)Thank you all for your advice.
Blue skies!!!! :)
jumpers ARE better all around people than whuffos

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At this point you'll have (should) depend on people you know (your JMs) or a local rigger.

Used gear is a really good way to get your first rig because you can generally sell it after 1 year or so hen your skills develop and you have a better idea of what you want.

But getting that first rig is like buying a used car. How can you kick the tires?

Talk to someone you can trust who has a few years (hundreds of jumps) in the sport.

You'd do best buying something similar to what your using on your student/rental jumps (size wise) but this depends on your weight/skills, etc.

Optionally, you could look at Rigging Innovations Genera or Altico's Dolphin. (I like Genera).

If you have any specific questions I;d be happy to help.

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

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Any fairly new container (about 1996 or later) will probably be safe and freefly friendly. Just gotta find something that fits the canopies you want and is sized about right for you. You can get a harness resized if you really cant find anything that fits you but will fit the canopies.

Don't focus too hard on particular brands....those two are popular but not necessarily better than many other brands out there. Just make sure whatever you get doesn't have velcro on the flaps/riser covers.

Dave

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Another option other than the Spectre would be a Triathlon. They've been in production for quite awhile and they're pretty easily to pick up on the used market. They're very similar canopies.

But anyway. Personally I'd look at what people at your DZ are jumping, go online and get some prices/models and then take those around to the people at your DZ and get several opinions. Skydivers love to talk about their gear and there are a lot of good gear choices out there. You already found out something about the one container you looked at from your instructor, just keep looking around and bring him more ideas.

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I see from your profile that you live in the LA area and are jumping up at Taft. There's a loft and gear shop right at your DZ and the owners are very knowledgeable and helpful and I know for a fact they carry a line of used gear.

The winter season is a good time to buy because a lot of people are selling off older gear and buying something newer, hotter, and snazzier. There are also a lot of jumpers in the northern states who won't be jumping much over the winter and some of them will be selling some very nice rigs too.

Whatever you get, the harness should be a comfy fit. If you're buying used gear it probably won't be perfect, but you should be able to find something that really feels good. If it doesn't feel good, DON'T buy it, it's not gonna start feeling any better. All of the name brands built in the last five or six years should be freefly friendly. As someone else said, don't get a rig with velcro. Look for tabs that fold and tuck around the closing flaps, riser covers, and even the toggles on the risers. The reserve probably shouldn't be more than a few years old. It's OK if it's been used, even a couple times. Hell, it's a parachute and most reserves have never been opened as much as you'll use your main in a single day. But DON'T buy a reserve unless and until you get a rigger to thoroughly inspect it. It's worth paying for the inspection, that canopy's going to save your ass one fine day.

Mains are all over the place in all shapes and sizes and for some pretty good prices. Again, pay a rigger to inspect the canopy before you buy. And in the meantime, rent some canopies, try out a Spectre, rent a Triathalon, probably try a Sabre2 and a Pilot while you're at it. See how they each fly differently and flare differently and which one you like better.

And DON'T let anybody tell you that you "have to" buy a small canopy. Add 25 lbs to your normal body weight and that's how big a canopy a beginner like you should buy the first time out. You shouldn't be loading at more than 1.0 lbs per sq. ft for your first year. Anybody who tells you otherwise is just a fashion cop who doesn't care if you break a leg. There are some excellent canopy piloting courses available in So. Cal. They ain't cheap, but neither is the emergency room (I've been there & done that, couldn't afford the t-shirt), so consider the cost of a canopy course as an INVESTMENT. And drop another $25 on Brian Germaine's excellent book, "The Parachute and Its Pilot". Because you're not just jumping your canopy, you're flying it and you need to learn some theory about canopy flight.

The Classifieds here at dropzone.com have some excellent gear for sale. I got my rig through the Classifieds here. But if it's a private sale, arrange to have the rig and money exchanged through a reputable loft or dealership. The seller, if they're on the level, will have no objection to using a rigger or a dealer as a third party and it protects both the seller and the buyer. Straight across dealing with a stranger is unfortunately just too risky, especially at today's prices.

And finally, don't feel you "have to" buy anything. Don't buy a rig that doesn't feel comfy, or looks worn and beat to hell. Don't buy a rig if it isn't gonna make you happy. It's NOT the only rig around and you will get plenty of chances to look at other nice rigs. Take your time and stay loose, because once you buy it, you own it and the money's gone bye-bye. It's a little like getting married, so take your time and wait for the right one to come along, because it will. And happy hunting !

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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The thing that concerned me from your post is this:

Quote

I have been flying a Z-Po 210 which I enjoy... Ideally, I would buy a...spectre 190..I am terrible under canopy, so I need something very forgiving but fun at the same time for the next few years.



If you look at some of my previous posts, I am as guilty of wanting to downsize as anyone, but the most important thing to remember is that WHATEVER canopy you fly, BE SURE you can fly it safely. Personally, I've made up my mind on what container and canopies I want, but I am not yet skilled enough to fly them, so I'm renting gear until I get to a point where I can safely fly what I intend to buy. You should do the same. Talk to your instructors, get canopy coaching, perhaps even go on a few CRW passes (open high and practice canopy control) to learn your canopy. Most people recommend AGAINST buying gear while on student status, or immediately afterwards, because you will learn a lot in a short period of time and quickly outgrow your "student sized" gear. Bottom line: talk to your instructors, and don't fly it or buy it if you can't do it safely.

Mike

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Thank you all very very much for the information. I know I should not be buying something until I can get better, but I also dont want to be grounded because of a lack of a rig. I am definitely buying used as inexpensive as possible so I can have the option of selling the rig off when I get better and desire to downsize.
Good news!!!! I did find a hell of a rig for a good price. My DZ told me to have the seller send it to them and they will inspect it. Over the phone, they did tell me that the sizes are right, so here are the specs:
Quasar II (97)
Triathlon 190 (97)
PD Reserve 160 (97)
Cypres (01)

The only thing that scares me is the 160 reserve, because of the wing loading, but my JM said it would be fine. The only downsizing I will be doing is jumping from a 210 Z-Po to a 190 Triathlon.
Thank you all again for your advice....it helped a lot. If you like, please go ahead and tell me what you think of what i found. I cant exactly land on my feet under any canopy but hopefully I will learn before the next 7 jumps when I am elegible for an A license.
Again, I dont know much about the equipment, so any feedback would be nice. I dont even know if the container is freefly friendly!!!!!
Thanks again :)
jumpers ARE better all around people than whuffos

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You are very correct. That is the only worry I have. I was told by my JM that the reserve is usually smaller than the main, so I hope they are correct. Hopefully if I ever have to use it, I will be good enough to fly it ;)
What do you think about the set-up. Yay? Nay? Is it freefly friendly? Everything except the Cypres was manufactured in 97, so I hope its new enough to be good. Either way the rigger at my DZ will inspect it before I fly it.
jumpers ARE better all around people than whuffos

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You are very correct. That is the only worry I have. I was told by my JM that the reserve is usually smaller than the main, so I hope they are correct. Hopefully if I ever have to use it, I will be good enough to fly it ;)
What do you think about the set-up. Yay? Nay? Is it freefly friendly? Everything except the Cypres was manufactured in 97, so I hope its new enough to be good. Either way the rigger at my DZ will inspect it before I fly it.



It's true that most containers out there seem to come with a smaller reserve. But that doesn't have to be, and you should keep in mind that reserves are F111, and wingloadings over 1.0/1.1 aren't recommended by the manufacturers for less than very experienced pilots. I ordered one sized for a 210 main and a smart 220 reserve.

Also, if you're struggling with a 210, why get a 190? You might be fine for it in another 20 or 30 jumps, but right now it seems like a bad idea. You could remove it and rent just the canopy for a bit. But the 160 reserve (which for PD might be considered a 174) still sounds like a leg injury in waiting.

Other rigs will come along. It might be too soon to leap on this one.

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You are very correct. That is the only worry I have. I was told by my JM that the reserve is usually smaller than the main, so I hope they are correct. Hopefully if I ever have to use it, I will be good enough to fly it ;)



It's a hard call to make without at least knowing how much you weigh. I've had a 150 reserve since around jump 30 or so, but then I only weigh 140lbs without gear and jumped in a location that offered plenty of good outs.

Figure that if your main doesn't work you'll be under that 160 with maybe only a thousand feet to get used to it with a good possibility of an out landing.

Also remember, you don't have to buy a complete rig. You can buy the container you want from person A, the main you want from person B and the reserve from person C. The containers all have sizes and you can look up what size main/reserves will fit in each size. Don't rush it. Take your time and get exactly the gear you want, you'll probably be using it for awhile.

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"The only downsizing I will be doing is jumping from a 210 Z-Po to a 190 Triathlon.".............."I cant exactly land on my feet under any canopy but hopefully I will learn before the next 7 jumps when I am elegible for an A license."




......:S



in reply to MarkM's
"Figure that if your main doesn't work you'll be under that 160 with maybe only a thousand feet to get used to it with a good possibility of an out landing."

to add to that, reserves are...essentially..just crappy versions of mains. you're not going to get the same flare out of a reserve that you're going to get out of a main. (neglecting individual characteristics)


BE THE BUDDHA!

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