Does your company value you for you???

[Amazon 7]

Corporate America is taking out life insurance on its employees so companies can profit from workers’ deaths.

Uh.... I really do not know how to think about this one... Paul will probably say its the norm for certain industries... but how common is this?

[quade 4]

Nope. I'm not going to say it's the "norm,*" but I will say it's been going on for a very long time. Another term for it is "dead peasant" insurance. So . . . that should give you a clue.

But, yeah, very few companies value most of their employees as people. The vast majority are simply a commodity.

Here was your hint. Back in the 70s companies had "Personnel Departments." Now they call them, "Human Resources." So now you're simply a resource, like wood pulp or pork bellies.






* Well, it is the norm for certain situations like CEOs and stars on movies, but that's entirely different than what we're talking about here.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

That was what I was thinking of... people working on movies where the loss of that person can have HUGE financial repercussions to production.

I had not even considered that nor had I heard of it in the companies I have worked for.... although it has my curiosity up and I will have to check.

[ryoder 1,546]

"Key person" insurance has been around a long time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_person_insurance

But it surprises me that in would make any financial sense to insure anyone else.
I would expect them to sustain a loss in the long term.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 4]

ryoder

But it surprises me that in would make any financial sense to insure anyone else.
I would expect them to sustain a loss in the long term.

Considering how long people have been insuring peasants, it obviously does.

My "guess" is that a big part of this has to do with the amount of information available to employers about employees; especially now in the Facebook era. They can pick and choose their targets much better.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Arvoitus 1]

Shouldn't this make skydivers/BASE jumpers more valued workers since companies have a better chance to profit from them?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[quade 4]

Arvoitus

Shouldn't this make skydivers/BASE jumpers more valued workers since companies have a better chance to profit from them?

No. Part of the point here is the workers -aren't- valued for anything other than their potential to die.

All the company needs to do is identify an individual, have their bean counters run the math vs what the insurance company math says, somehow still convince the insurance company to do it and they have their "peasant" insured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_peasant_insurance

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SkyDekker 1,287]

Meh, makes sense to me.

An employee suddenly dying has costs associated. Grief counselling, temp workers, hiring process, possible loss of knowledge.

My guess is if insurance is taken out, it isn't for the company to get rich, it is for the company to cover those costs.

[JohnMitchell 16]

SkyDekker

An employee suddenly dying has costs associated. Grief counselling, temp workers, hiring process, possible loss of knowledge.

My guess is if insurance is taken out, it isn't for the company to get rich, it is for the company to cover those costs.

Really? For a Walmart employee? Loss of knowledge?

Nope, it's plain and simple greed, IMHO.

[Andy9o8 1]

JohnMitchell

***An employee suddenly dying has costs associated. Grief counselling, temp workers, hiring process, possible loss of knowledge.

My guess is if insurance is taken out, it isn't for the company to get rich, it is for the company to cover those costs.

Really? For a Walmart employee? Loss of knowledge?

Nope, it's plain and simple greed, IMHO.


As Ryoder correctly points out, the practice of "key person" life insurance has been in existence for a very long time. The idea being, a company or professional can really take a huge financial hit overnight resulting from the loss of institutional memory, management capability and/or revenue-earning ability should a top executives and/or revenue-producer die. That goes for the top-most managerial executives at any company, even Wal-Mart.

Per the article, since 2006 the law now limits this to the highest paid 35% of employees. Personally, I don't think it should be more than around the top 10%, but I presume the 35% figure was a compromise struck to get enough Republicans to vote for it to pass, and to avoid a veto by President Bush.

Anyhow, for the top-most important people in a company (however that may be defined), I'm generally ok with it. Below that, however, I have the same moral discomfort with it as you do.

.

[ntrprnr 0]

Sad part is that companies like this are actually shooting themselves in the foot, profit-wise, by acting this way.

Edited to say I wrote a book about it but can't mention the name because people below are getting sand in their vaginas thinking that linking to the book is advertising, which in fact I'm pointing out that I did two fucking years of research on the concept of companies being nice vs. not being nice.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[Andy9o8 1]

[ryoder 1,546]

From the Amazon summary:

"The era of authoritarian cowboy CEOs like Jack Welch and Lee Iacocca is over. In an age of increasing transparency and access, it just doesn’t pay to be a jerk—to employees, customers, competitors, or anyone else. In Nice Companies Finish First, Shankman, a pioneer in modern PR, marketing, advertising, social media, and customer service, profiles the famously nice executives, entrepreneurs, and companies that are setting the standard for success in this new collaborative world. He explores the new hallmarks of effective leadership, including loyalty, optimism, humility, and a reverence for customer service, and shows how leaders like Jet Blue’s Dave Needleman, Tony Hsieh of Zappos, Steve Jobs of Apple, Ken Chenault of Amex, Indra Nooyi of Pepsi, and the team behind Patagonia harness these traits to build productive, open, and happy workplaces for the benefit of their employees, themselves, and the bottom line."

What???
I've never heard anything good about how he treated people.
Although I do admire what he accomplished with the company.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ntrprnr 0]

I edited my previous post for you, Andy. Hope it's more to your liking.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[ntrprnr 0]

Don't post about my book - Andy gets sand in his vagina. :)

ryoder

From the Amazon summary:

"The era of authoritarian cowboy CEOs like Jack Welch and Lee Iacocca is over. In an age of increasing transparency and access, it just doesn’t pay to be a jerk—to employees, customers, competitors, or anyone else. In Nice Companies Finish First, Shankman, a pioneer in modern PR, marketing, advertising, social media, and customer service, profiles the famously nice executives, entrepreneurs, and companies that are setting the standard for success in this new collaborative world. He explores the new hallmarks of effective leadership, including loyalty, optimism, humility, and a reverence for customer service, and shows how leaders like Jet Blue’s Dave Needleman, Tony Hsieh of Zappos, Steve Jobs of Apple, Ken Chenault of Amex, Indra Nooyi of Pepsi, and the team behind Patagonia harness these traits to build productive, open, and happy workplaces for the benefit of their employees, themselves, and the bottom line."

What???
I've never heard anything good about how he treated people.
Although I do admire what he accomplished with the company.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[Andy9o8 1]

Quote

Andy gets sand in his vagina. :

Dude, WTF?? What part of " " did you not understand? Sorry you're humor impaired. I promise to never try it with you again.

In the spirit of Miss Congeniality, I, too, have edited.

[ntrprnr 0]

You really think I took you seriously? I know I don't post here a lot, but surely you know me better than that. :)

The book is called nice companies finish first, it's a best seller, and I'm awesome. :)

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[ryoder 1,546]

Could you stop arguing with Andy and comment on Steve Jobs?
I'm really curious what you have to say.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ntrprnr 0]

Going on CNN international in six minutes. I'll do it when I get back to my office. :)

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[SkyDekker 1,287]

Trying to figure out if that isa front door or back door brag...

[ntrprnr 0]

While Jobs was no doubt a hardass who demanded perfection, he did have a surprising amount of loyalty in him. Some of the interviews I did showed a man who didn't tolerate anything but the best from his employees, but wasn't a "mean" man. It's easy to confuse the two, but they're intrinsically two different sets of values.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[Amazon 7]

ntrprnr

While Jobs was no doubt a hardass who demanded perfection, he did have a surprising amount of loyalty in him. Some of the interviews I did showed a man who didn't tolerate anything but the best from his employees, but wasn't a "mean" man. It's easy to confuse the two, but they're intrinsically two different sets of values.

Those I know who worked there during the early days.. were expected to have no life and some of them were too weak to live up to that. There was no work-life balance and more than one of their friends could not hack the 90 plus hours a week and all that demanded perfection and ended up with the work taking their lives.

[ntrprnr 0]

Totally agree - No work-life balance at all back then - But - it wasn't just Apple - every company in that space was following the same suit - and almost every company has since changed - When I worked at AOL in 1995, they ENCOURAGED us to date within the company, because it meant we wouldn't leave early to meet someone for a date. That's what the startup/tech field was back then - and even before.

Apple, like every other tech company (and startup) has evolved - Now, work-life balance is touted as a reason to work for company X over company Y, because they provide a better one. Amazing how things come full circle over time.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[ryoder 1,546]

ntrprnr

Totally agree - No work-life balance at all back then - But - it wasn't just Apple - every company in that space was following the same suit - and almost every company has since changed - When I worked at AOL in 1995, they ENCOURAGED us to date within the company, because it meant we wouldn't leave early to meet someone for a date. That's what the startup/tech field was back then - and even before.

Apple, like every other tech company (and startup) has evolved - Now, work-life balance is touted as a reason to work for company X over company Y, because they provide a better one. Amazing how things come full circle over time.

Not the one I recently quit.
They were the worst employer I ever had.
Won't give names, but let's just say the CEO is really big on sailboats.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ntrprnr 0]

O, I've heard of them. ;(

The whole point I made in the book is that in the end, it's going to come down to employees being happy - only then will customers be happy - and only then will customers who are happy bring new customers - we're moving into an age where advertising and marketing are going to fail - only personal recommendation will be the win.

Anyone who wants a copy - email me - peter at shankman dot com - with your physical address - happy to send you one, no charge. Don't sell it on eBay.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."