After spending over $7000 is it unreasonable to ask for a free reserve pack?

[PLFXpert 0]

While I expected the inevitable "dick in a box" response, I still had hopes for something more original...or at least a bigger box.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[DiverMike 5]

Quote

This isn't my first rig but it is the first time I've bought all new components of a new rig all from one place at the same time... beer?!

Sorry - thought you were a Newb getting gear for the first time. It appears you just forgot to ask for a discount before you paid. Live and learn.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[normiss 622]

You do generally require a special opener prior to needing the rubber.

[Mickochet 0]

Not even close to the same thing Normiss!

If you never fall down you aren't trying hard enough.

[BillyVance 34]

normiss

Where's Dave???

On Facebook and bored sitting around recovering from arm surgery.

Yeah, I still remember the IBAD thing.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[JohnMitchell 14]

Nerra

I did not ever expect the rigger to work for free, I was asking the store to cover the cost as a gesture of goodwill for my continual business.

I understood that immediately from your first post. A lot was read into it by some.

Quote

I'm sorry if I offended anyone - bad karma and skydiving aren't a great mix.

I didn't see you say anything offensive, but thanks for smoothing any ruffled feathers. If you get out to Kapowsin Air Sports in WA, look me up and we'll make a jump or two.

[DiverMike 5]

Quote

bad karma and skydiving aren't a great mix.

+1

Truer words were never spoken. I guess that is why I like to hang around skydivers. They are generally good people who care about the well being of others.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[BIGUN 1,053]

Nerra

Well I slept on the issue and refrained from posting.

I'm glad some balance seems to have been restored to the thread.

My main frustration with this thread wasn't the difference in opinion or even that people didn't agree with me, it was that people were continually getting side tracked and insinuating that I was expecting a rigger to work for free despite me continually stating otherwise.

I'd like to state one more time, and please feel free to read the original post along with all my other posts to see that this was always the case...

I did not ever expect the rigger to work for free, I was asking the store to cover the cost as a gesture of goodwill for my continual business.

I do wonder how the thread would have gone had I not mentioned 'pack job' and just said '$60 discount'.

This isn't my first rig but it is the first time I've bought all new components of a new rig all from one place at the same time... beer?!

Anyway - thank you all for chipping in - I'm sorry if I offended anyone - bad karma and skydiving aren't a great mix.

IMO You shouldn't have had to ask. The store should have offered the free reserve repack (or something in advance) and paid the rigger. Everyone always gives accolades to L&B about great customer service with that of a quality product is what keeps loyal customers and the customers become the sales team. L&B gets it.

In this case; the store is not the manufacturer, so their brand will be quality of service. They made plenty of margin on full retail to gladly and graciously accept a $60.00 repack request instead of chewing out a customer's ass. I think they missed the boat on this one. Instead of someone being a cheerleader for the store; they now have a naysayer. If the customer dissuades ten people with his story, that's 70K in opportunity revenue - gone.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[champu 1]

BIGUN

Everyone always gives accolades to L&B about great customer service with that of a quality product is what keeps loyal customers and the customers become the sales team.

Thank you for clearing up the whole "loyal customer" thing. I read this thread in one go and had to hold my tongue really hard to get to the end after reading the exchange earlier about "earning" the status of loyalty by building report as a customer.

That is pants-on-head backwards. It is not desirable to be a loyal customer. It is not something you work at. It is desirable to have loyal customers... as a business. It's something the business works at. Loyal customers are a continued source of revenue and advertising.

I agree with others that have said the OP simply asked at the wrong time and, possibly, in the wrong way. If the other person countered with a comment about how it couldn't be done because riggers don't work for free then that was a dick head move regardless of when the question was asked.

[BIGUN 1,053]

Even if the customer's timing was off, a simple, "Let me talk with some folks and see what we can do" instead of an ass chewing. And, even if the reserve repack issue wasn't an option; extend the offer for something else in kind. Hell, call the customer's DZ and put a couple of jumps on their account.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[normiss 622]

IIRC, I received 8 or 10 jump tix when I bought a stinkin' new rig.
When they were almost half of today's cost!

[Doug_Davis 0]

champu

***Everyone always gives accolades to L&B about great customer service with that of a quality product is what keeps loyal customers and the customers become the sales team.

Thank you for clearing up the whole "loyal customer" thing. I read this thread in one go and had to hold my tongue really hard to get to the end after reading the exchange earlier about "earning" the status of loyalty by building report as a customer.

That is pants-on-head backwards. It is not desirable to be a loyal customer. It is not something you work at. It is desirable to have loyal customers... as a business. It's something the business works at. Loyal customers are a continued source of revenue and advertising.

I agree with others that have said the OP simply asked at the wrong time and, possibly, in the wrong way. If the other person countered with a comment about how it couldn't be done because riggers don't work for free then that was a dick head move regardless of when the question was asked.

+1

[quade 3]

BIGUN

Even if the customer's timing was off, a simple, "Let me talk with some folks and see what we can do" instead of an ass chewing.

To be fair, we have ONLY heard one side of the story so far and judging by the original poster's defensive stance against anyone who disagreed with him, it's entirely possible this "ass chewing" was mostly an exaggerated misperception in his part.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[champu 1]

quade

***Even if the customer's timing was off, a simple, "Let me talk with some folks and see what we can do" instead of an ass chewing.

To be fair, we have ONLY heard one side of the story so far and judging by the original poster's defensive stance against anyone who disagreed with him, it's entirely possible this "ass chewing" was mostly an exaggerated misperception in his part.

The "ass chewing" from the dealer is alleged, but the ass chewing he received in this thread is on record. In my opinion his responses here don't call into question his original account.

I think people here aren't addressing the OP, they are addressing "everyone who has ever made a post kinda sorta in the same vein as the OP."

[BIGUN 1,053]

quade

To be fair, we have ONLY heard one side of the story so far and judging by the original poster's defensive stance against anyone who disagreed with him, it's entirely possible this "ass chewing" was mostly an exaggerated misperception in his part.

This thread exists because of his perception. An L&B type thread may have existed if his perception were different. It is the responsibility of the store to ensure the customer leaves with the right perception.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JohnMitchell 14]

BIGUN

This thread exists because of his perception. An L&B type thread may have existed if his perception were different. It is the responsibility of the store to ensure the customer leaves with the right perception.

Ahh, very good point there, sir.

The customer is king, and is the reason for all businesses.

BTW, I'm glad to see a few other opinions on my side of the fence.

[Nerra 0]

JohnMitchell

If you get out to Kapowsin Air Sports in WA, look me up and we'll make a jump or two.

Thanks John, most certainly will!

[Nataly 38]

champu

The "ass chewing" from the dealer is alleged, but the ass chewing he received in this thread is on record. In my opinion his responses here don't call into question his original account.

I think people here aren't addressing the OP, they are addressing "everyone who has ever made a post kinda sorta in the same vein as the OP."

The thing is, effective communication is an art-form... I have been posting on here for a number of years now, and one thing I'm still learning is that the way you present your arguments will hugely impact how friendly (or not) the responses will be.

When you solicit advice (as the OP did), you have to be able to either present your arguments in a way that nobody can disagree with you (difficult, to say the least), or else be responsive to the advice you receive... Now, some advice will not be worth much, but you asked for it, so a polite "I hadn't thought of that" can be better at keeping the conversation on a constructive level than: "that is the dumbest thing I ever heard" (even though it may well be the dumbest thing you ever heard - nobody was required to pass an IQ test in order to become a member of DZ.com...)

One thing that consistently gets everyone to "gang-up" against you is a refusal to at least consider a different point of view... Especially when most other people share one point of view and you doggedly stick to your guns. Now, you may be 100% correct, and they may be 100% wrong, however failure to at least listen to the majority does not yield very good results. I know this because I am a stubborn person and sometimes it takes me too long to realise I am fighting a losing battle (when the goal was not even to fight in the first place). There is nothing wrong with saying "I do not agree with your point of view, but thank you for sharing it." Or simply: "ok, we will agree to disagree" and moving on, if you have exhausted the argument. (I'm not very good at doing this, but when I do actually try it, I find stepping back actually helps me to really consider the others' point of view - so much so that my perspective has sometimes actually changed/broadened in the end.)

To me, the goal of any good discussion is not to have a winning argument and a losing argument, but to pick the brains of other people in an effort to learn. If I come away learning something, I cannot feel like the discussion was a failure, even if my arguments proved to be erroneous, misguided, misinformed or even just plain wrong. I am not the type of person who needs to be "correct" all the time - I prefer to devellop a topic of conversation and be open to broadening my understanding of things. Some people on here just need to WIN, and for this they need to make you out to be a loser. So be it. There will always be noise to filter out... But even this noise can be telling/instructive.

There you go. To the OP: take some of the advice onboard, ignore some, disagree with some, and laugh here and there... Just don't be riding in on a high horse and miss the fact that conversations are a two-way street... If people are ganging up on you, perhaps it's worth considering whether your approach is flawed... Ie: drop some of the attitude and sarcasm and see if you don't get better responses...

My .02 cents.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[JohnMitchell 14]

Nataly

To me, the goal of any good discussion is not to have a winning argument and a losing argument, but to pick the brains of other people in an effort to learn. If I come away learning something, I cannot feel like the discussion was a failure, even if my arguments proved to be erroneous, misguided, misinformed or even just plain wrong.

This....

Countless times I've changed my viewpoint 180 degrees after a good discussion with someone. No one knows everything, no one is correct about everything, and everyone I meet has something I can learn from them.

I just hate it when someone takes your disagreement with their position as a personal attack on their worthiness. Seems like petty thinking, IMHO.

[champu 1]

No argument from me on anything you said there; there have been quite a few constructive posts. I didn't intend to be dismissive of the entire thread.

[Nataly 38]

champu

No argument from me on anything you said there; there have been quite a few constructive posts. I didn't intend to be dismissive of the entire thread.

I didn't think you were dismissing the entire thread... I was merely pointing out that a bit of ass-chewing is sometimes a sign that you shouldn't begin a conversation by sticking your arse out

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[catfishhunter 1]

I didn't wade through all the "support the sport blah blah blah" BS. I ALWAYS throw services/extra's in to any deal I make and I can't remember the last time someone paid retail on an large purchase from me. I personally would have negotiated upfront and walked if they were unwilling to negotiate but this bullshit that you have 7k to spend and you should be grateful is liberal bullshit. It is your money you earned it and you deserve it.

Quade I haven't ever cared for you but your comment "It is particularly douchy to flaunt that in the faces of people and ask for "free" services from people who work hella hard to provide a service that saves people's lives." was so far out of line and a personal attack the fact your still green is disgusting and far and away more "douchy" then anything the OP did or said..

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

Speaking pedantically, you are correct...

No. I am simply correct. There is no pedantry in it. It IS disposable income.

Actually, you are being pedantic, and you don't know if you are correct.

If he paid with borrowed money (such as a credit card), then the repayment of the loan will be with disposable income, but the purchase was not completed with disposable income.

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WHY? Because people ask me to work for free quite a bit. I'm sorry, but my efforts and time aren't free. It's disrespectful of the knowledge I have and the services I provide. It's something the people asking me to do for free can't even begin to do for themselves, yet they've valued my knowledge and time at nothing.

And generally the more people buy, the more the seller has room to provide a discount or an extra.

[Rick 67]

catfishhunter

your comment "It is particularly douchy to flaunt that in the faces of people and ask for "free" services from people who work hella hard to provide a service that saves people's lives." was so far out of line and a personal attack the fact your still green is disgusting and far and away more "douchy" then anything the OP did or said..

agree with this

Also seems to me that most of the posters were slamming the OP for trying to rape some poor rigger. He has spent half of his posts 'splaining he expected the company to pick up the riggers tab. I don't see that as an unreasonable request.

I would not have come on here bitching about it but not an unreasonable request all the same

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Rick

***your comment "It is particularly douchy to flaunt that in the faces of people and ask for "free" services from people who work hella hard to provide a service that saves people's lives." was so far out of line and a personal attack the fact your still green is disgusting and far and away more "douchy" then anything the OP did or said..

agree with this

Also seems to me that most of the posters were slamming the OP for trying to rape some poor rigger. He has spent half of his posts 'splaining he expected the company to pick up the riggers tab. I don't see that as an unreasonable request.

I would not have come on here bitching about it but not an unreasonable request all the same

^this