After spending over $7000 is it unreasonable to ask for a free reserve pack?

[normiss 622]

^This.

[theonlyski 3]

Nerra

Spending $50,000 and asking the dealer for a free car wash before picking up your car up would be a more accurate analogy.
If they then turned round and said to you that you shouldn't expect their car wash guy to work for free, would you not be insulted?

That car wash guy is getting paid what? $10/hr and is just worried about getting the car clean enough to drive off into the sunset.

The rigger has worked to earn a FAA certificate and is responsible for INSPECTING and packing that pile of parts you just ordered. Would you want it put together (assuming all new parts) by someone just worried about getting it done to move on, or would you want someone who will take the time, do it right and possibly find the lines that aren't bartacked?

Oh, and that whole thing is a life saving device EVERY TIME YOU USE IT. A dirty car is hardly on the same scale.

Then there's the fact that if something happens involving your gear, the FAA may be digging all up in the ass of that rigger, even if they hadn't fucked anything up.

Bitching about $60 for an A-I-R is pretty shallow. Especially since I know riggers across the country may already be charging more.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Nerra 0]

quade

***Speaking pedantically, you are correct...

No. I am simply correct. There is no pedantry in it. It IS disposable income.

Quote

...however the tone of your response implied that $7000 was pocket change for me...

Negative. You inferred that all on your own.

Quote

Maybe my original post implied that it was. I'm saying now that it is not, it's more money than I have spent on any single purchase in my life including my car.

Which I hope you understand is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

The $60 in free services you requested is how other people make their living. Just as you worked hard for your $7000 in disposable income, these people are also working hard. Your working hard does not supersede their working hard. It is, obviously in my opinion, that it is improper to ask other people to work hard for you for free. Some people might disagree with that, but I think it's a douchy thing to do.

WHY? Because people ask me to work for free quite a bit. I'm sorry, but my efforts and time aren't free. It's disrespectful of the knowledge I have and the services I provide. It's something the people asking me to do for free can't even begin to do for themselves, yet they've valued my knowledge and time at nothing.

Sorry, but you will not now, nor ever, get any sympathy from me over this issue.

Well you've obviously got an axe to grind, maybe you work for this company or the lady is your partner/friend.

Your last response tells me that you've completely missed my point, the one I specifically pointed out, that I was not asking a rigger to do this for free. I was asking the corporate company with whom I spent a large sum of money to cover the cost of a reserve pack in return for my loyalty. I honestly didn't think that was an unreasonable request.

In any other business, asking for a 0.85% discount wouldn't be classed as unreasonable. In skydiving it seems it is.

[Nerra 0]

theonlyski

***
Spending $50,000 and asking the dealer for a free car wash before picking up your car up would be a more accurate analogy.
If they then turned round and said to you that you shouldn't expect their car wash guy to work for free, would you not be insulted?

That car wash guy is getting paid what? $10/hr and is just worried about getting the car clean enough to drive off into the sunset.

The rigger has worked to earn a FAA certificate and is responsible for INSPECTING and packing that pile of parts you just ordered. Would you want it put together (assuming all new parts) by someone just worried about getting it done to move on, or would you want someone who will take the time, do it right and possibly find the lines that aren't bartacked?

Oh, and that whole thing is a life saving device EVERY TIME YOU USE IT. A dirty car is hardly on the same scale.

Then there's the fact that if something happens involving your gear, the FAA may be digging all up in the ass of that rigger, even if they hadn't fucked anything up.

Bitching about $60 for an A-I-R is pretty shallow. Especially since I know riggers across the country may already be charging more.

Read the original post, you missed the point.

[quade 3]

Nerra

In any other business, asking for a 0.85% discount wouldn't be classed as unreasonable.

AFTER a deal has been made? You're not asking for a discount. You are attempting to justify your request in terms of a discount, but according to your own account you had already agreed to the deal. That being the case, you are not asking for a discount. You're asking for a business for $60.

Let's turn that around and suppose you had ordered and paid for the gear, went to pick it up and the gear store decided to charge you $60 for "delivery." How would that go down with you?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wmw999 2,121]

I'm with the guys who said you asked at the wrong time. Before the papers are signed you can try to work out any deal you can. Regardless you should know what is and isn't normally included.

After all, when you buy a car normally the first stop is a gas station because there's barely enough gas in the tank to register.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Nerra

***I can't believe after spending $50,000 on a vehicle that I have to BUY tags and registration!
WTD????

It's a completely different organisation.

Spending $50,000 and asking the dealer for a free car wash before picking up your car up would be a more accurate analogy.
If they then turned round and said to you that you shouldn't expect their car wash guy to work for free, would you not be insulted?

I've never heard of having to ask for a free car wash at the dealer whether it's a new car pick up or routine service. It's always included and very much appreciated by me. Even the guido tire wet is included.

Always be kinder than you feel.

[Nerra 0]

quade

***In any other business, asking for a 0.85% discount wouldn't be classed as unreasonable.

AFTER a deal has been made? You're not asking for a discount. You are attempting to justify your request in terms of a discount, but according to your own account you had already agreed to the deal. That being the case, you are not asking for a discount. You're asking for a business for $60.

Let's turn that around and suppose you had ordered and paid for the gear, went to pick it up and the gear store decided to charge you $60 for "delivery." How would that go down with you?

Yes and no. I was actually about to purchase the reserve canopy (everything else had been paid for) and I asked for a discount to which I was told no because the manufacturer doesn't allow discounts. I didn't argue with that, I then asked if they could comp the reserve pack.

I terms of pure salesmanship and bargaining power, yes maybe I should have twisted their arm before handing over any cash and that's something I might do before buying a used car from a car dealer that I will probably never go back to again. However in this case I have bought equipment from them in the past and I had planned to continue buying equipment from them in the future. It's an ongoing relationship.

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Nerra

******Was my request unreasonable?

Yes.

You just admitted you have (or at least had) $7000 in completely disposable income. You are a fortunate individual.

It is particularly douchy to flaunt that in the faces of people and ask for "free" services from people who work hella hard to provide a service that saves people's lives.

Think about what you just wrote next time you request or are offered something at less than full asking price.

Yes I spent $7000 - I wouldn't call it disposable income, more like a solid two years of really hard work, saving and sacrifice.

Assuming that I'm wealthy because I bought a new rig is a pretty douchy thing to do.

I just wanted to say good for you for saving for something you really wanted instead of throwing it all on a credit card.

Always be kinder than you feel.

[Nerra 0]

LuckyMcSwervy

*********Was my request unreasonable?

Yes.

You just admitted you have (or at least had) $7000 in completely disposable income. You are a fortunate individual.

It is particularly douchy to flaunt that in the faces of people and ask for "free" services from people who work hella hard to provide a service that saves people's lives.

Think about what you just wrote next time you request or are offered something at less than full asking price.

Yes I spent $7000 - I wouldn't call it disposable income, more like a solid two years of really hard work, saving and sacrifice.

Assuming that I'm wealthy because I bought a new rig is a pretty douchy thing to do.

I just wanted to say good for you for saving for something you really wanted instead of throwing it all on a credit card.
Thank you.

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Nerra

******Speaking pedantically, you are correct...

No. I am simply correct. There is no pedantry in it. It IS disposable income.

Quote

...however the tone of your response implied that $7000 was pocket change for me...

Negative. You inferred that all on your own.

Quote

Maybe my original post implied that it was. I'm saying now that it is not, it's more money than I have spent on any single purchase in my life including my car.

Which I hope you understand is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

The $60 in free services you requested is how other people make their living. Just as you worked hard for your $7000 in disposable income, these people are also working hard. Your working hard does not supersede their working hard. It is, obviously in my opinion, that it is improper to ask other people to work hard for you for free. Some people might disagree with that, but I think it's a douchy thing to do.

WHY? Because people ask me to work for free quite a bit. I'm sorry, but my efforts and time aren't free. It's disrespectful of the knowledge I have and the services I provide. It's something the people asking me to do for free can't even begin to do for themselves, yet they've valued my knowledge and time at nothing.

Sorry, but you will not now, nor ever, get any sympathy from me over this issue.

Well you've obviously got an axe to grind, maybe you work for this company or the lady is your partner/friend.

Your last response tells me that you've completely missed my point, the one I specifically pointed out, that I was not asking a rigger to do this for free. I was asking the corporate company with whom I spent a large sum of money to cover the cost of a reserve pack in return for my loyalty. I honestly didn't think that was an unreasonable request.

In any other business, asking for a 0.85% discount wouldn't be classed as unreasonable. In skydiving it seems it is.

Loyalty isn't something that should be bought. Like respect and trust it should be earned.

Always be kinder than you feel.

[GooniesKid 0]

This is the point in the whole tread where i just do this...
http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw7qn58NxG1qii6tmo1_500.gif

But in all honesty i believe in a few things.
First let me just tell you that because of a NDA i can't disclose my location.
That being said, i do support my home DZ gear store, rigger loft, staff, packers, facilities by always paying for their services; whether it'd renting a packer for a day, paying for food, paying for gear/accessories, repacks. Take care of the DZ and they'll take care of you.
That being said, i believe the pricing is fair and i never complain or ask for a kickback. If I feel prices aren't fare then i'll just take my business elsewhere.

There has been instances where i would rent a packer for a day but would get literally jipped out of a service (even when i'm known for tipping my packer 30%,,,that's 2x more than a regular tip and from what i understand not all jumpers tip their packers). And by jipped i mean the packer would forget to pack my rig, or put a group ahead of my rig even when i come down first, etc. But the point is i had choices,,i would have either 1) got another packer or 2) pack for myself. in either case this is an example of seeking business elsewhere.

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Isn't Michael an old friend?

Always be kinder than you feel.

[GooniesKid 0]

LuckyMcSwervy

*********Speaking pedantically, you are correct...

No. I am simply correct. There is no pedantry in it. It IS disposable income.

Quote

...however the tone of your response implied that $7000 was pocket change for me...

Negative. You inferred that all on your own.

Quote

Maybe my original post implied that it was. I'm saying now that it is not, it's more money than I have spent on any single purchase in my life including my car.

Which I hope you understand is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

The $60 in free services you requested is how other people make their living. Just as you worked hard for your $7000 in disposable income, these people are also working hard. Your working hard does not supersede their working hard. It is, obviously in my opinion, that it is improper to ask other people to work hard for you for free. Some people might disagree with that, but I think it's a douchy thing to do.

WHY? Because people ask me to work for free quite a bit. I'm sorry, but my efforts and time aren't free. It's disrespectful of the knowledge I have and the services I provide. It's something the people asking me to do for free can't even begin to do for themselves, yet they've valued my knowledge and time at nothing.

Sorry, but you will not now, nor ever, get any sympathy from me over this issue.

Well you've obviously got an axe to grind, maybe you work for this company or the lady is your partner/friend.

Your last response tells me that you've completely missed my point, the one I specifically pointed out, that I was not asking a rigger to do this for free. I was asking the corporate company with whom I spent a large sum of money to cover the cost of a reserve pack in return for my loyalty. I honestly didn't think that was an unreasonable request.

In any other business, asking for a 0.85% discount wouldn't be classed as unreasonable. In skydiving it seems it is.

Loyalty isn't something that should be bought. Like respect and trust it should be earned.

I agree that respect and trust SHOULD be earned.

Loyalty, however, CAN be bought.
Example, (hypothetically speaking) a company can pay (alot of money) for mercenary services for protection. Those mercenaries are loyal to that company in the interest of money.
If i were running for class president and i was being paid (alot of money) by special interest group to make a stand on said special interest group issue then i have been effectively "loyal" to that special interest group because my "loyalty" was bought out. I'm not saying any of these things happen in the real world but theoretically it can.

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

GooniesKid

************Speaking pedantically, you are correct...

No. I am simply correct. There is no pedantry in it. It IS disposable income.

Quote

...however the tone of your response implied that $7000 was pocket change for me...

Negative. You inferred that all on your own.

Quote

Maybe my original post implied that it was. I'm saying now that it is not, it's more money than I have spent on any single purchase in my life including my car.

Which I hope you understand is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

The $60 in free services you requested is how other people make their living. Just as you worked hard for your $7000 in disposable income, these people are also working hard. Your working hard does not supersede their working hard. It is, obviously in my opinion, that it is improper to ask other people to work hard for you for free. Some people might disagree with that, but I think it's a douchy thing to do.

WHY? Because people ask me to work for free quite a bit. I'm sorry, but my efforts and time aren't free. It's disrespectful of the knowledge I have and the services I provide. It's something the people asking me to do for free can't even begin to do for themselves, yet they've valued my knowledge and time at nothing.

Sorry, but you will not now, nor ever, get any sympathy from me over this issue.

Well you've obviously got an axe to grind, maybe you work for this company or the lady is your partner/friend.

Your last response tells me that you've completely missed my point, the one I specifically pointed out, that I was not asking a rigger to do this for free. I was asking the corporate company with whom I spent a large sum of money to cover the cost of a reserve pack in return for my loyalty. I honestly didn't think that was an unreasonable request.

In any other business, asking for a 0.85% discount wouldn't be classed as unreasonable. In skydiving it seems it is.

Loyalty isn't something that should be bought. Like respect and trust it should be earned.

I agree that respect and trust SHOULD be earned.

Loyalty, however, CAN be bought.
Example, (hypothetically speaking) a company can pay (alot of money) for mercenary services for protection. Those mercenaries are loyal to that company in the interest of money.
If i were running for class president and i was being paid (alot of money) by special interest group to make a stand on said special interest group issue then i have been effectively "loyal" to that special interest group because my "loyalty" was bought out. I'm not saying any of these things happen in the real world but theoretically it can.

That just makes you a sell out.

Always be kinder than you feel.

[GooniesKid 0]

LuckyMcSwervy

***************Speaking pedantically, you are correct...

No. I am simply correct. There is no pedantry in it. It IS disposable income.

Quote

...however the tone of your response implied that $7000 was pocket change for me...

Negative. You inferred that all on your own.

Quote

Maybe my original post implied that it was. I'm saying now that it is not, it's more money than I have spent on any single purchase in my life including my car.

Which I hope you understand is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

The $60 in free services you requested is how other people make their living. Just as you worked hard for your $7000 in disposable income, these people are also working hard. Your working hard does not supersede their working hard. It is, obviously in my opinion, that it is improper to ask other people to work hard for you for free. Some people might disagree with that, but I think it's a douchy thing to do.

WHY? Because people ask me to work for free quite a bit. I'm sorry, but my efforts and time aren't free. It's disrespectful of the knowledge I have and the services I provide. It's something the people asking me to do for free can't even begin to do for themselves, yet they've valued my knowledge and time at nothing.

Sorry, but you will not now, nor ever, get any sympathy from me over this issue.

Well you've obviously got an axe to grind, maybe you work for this company or the lady is your partner/friend.

Your last response tells me that you've completely missed my point, the one I specifically pointed out, that I was not asking a rigger to do this for free. I was asking the corporate company with whom I spent a large sum of money to cover the cost of a reserve pack in return for my loyalty. I honestly didn't think that was an unreasonable request.

In any other business, asking for a 0.85% discount wouldn't be classed as unreasonable. In skydiving it seems it is.

Loyalty isn't something that should be bought. Like respect and trust it should be earned.

I agree that respect and trust SHOULD be earned.

Loyalty, however, CAN be bought.
Example, (hypothetically speaking) a company can pay (alot of money) for mercenary services for protection. Those mercenaries are loyal to that company in the interest of money.
If i were running for class president and i was being paid (alot of money) by special interest group to make a stand on said special interest group issue then i have been effectively "loyal" to that special interest group because my "loyalty" was bought out. I'm not saying any of these things happen in the real world but theoretically it can.

That just makes you a sell out.

wait,,referring to specifically me as a sell out? or are you referring to the word "you" as in "those that engage in those kinds of activity of buying loyalty"?

I was just trying to use hypothetical examples to illustrate the point.

[quade 3]

Fairly certain she's using the impersonal pronoun version of the word "you."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

quade

Fairly certain she's using the impersonal pronoun version of the word "you."

^This. I thought of going back and clarifying but I figured he'd know the way I was using "you". Sorry for the confusion!!

Always be kinder than you feel.

[Nerra 0]

GooniesKid

Loyalty, however, CAN be bought.

Sell out.

I can't believe that in an industry where people are literally saving lives with the work they do that you're so quick to sell out. What kind of terrible person are you?

[GooniesKid 0]

LuckyMcSwervy

***Fairly certain she's using the impersonal pronoun version of the word "you."

^This. I thought of going back and clarifying but I figured he'd know the way I was using "you". Sorry for the confusion!!

no no no. no need for apologies. Just a simple miscommunication that's all. but thanks for clarifying.

[Conundrum 1]

Just how many purchases need to be made in order to be considered a "loyal" customer?

[Nerra 0]

wildcard451

For everyone telling him it's unreasonable, give me a fucking break. When I go car shopping, negotiations are perfectly fine and if I'm paying cash or what not, you can be damn certain I am going to ask them to toss in something to sweeten the deal. It's great negotiation tactics.

Thanks buddy.

[normiss 622]

No, it's an exact comparison.

You purchased an expensive item and now are required to pay a fee for a person to perform work to make the item legal to use.

Then you go to the internet to bitch about it.

I'm sure future riggers in your path are appreciative of that effort though.

[GooniesKid 0]

Conundrum

Just how many purchases need to be made in order to be considered a "loyal" customer?

For me, it's not about the number of purchases but about building a rapport with a local business

[rwieder 0]

Quote

Spending $50,000 and asking the dealer for a free car wash before picking up your car up would be a more accurate analogy.

I agree! Most dealers even offer free oil changes for the life of the vehicle. Like someone buys a new car or truck and keeps it very long these days.

Quote

If they then turned round and said to you that you shouldn't expect their car wash guy to work for free, would you not be insulted?

Personally I wouldn't be insulted (I'd take it home and wash it myself) But I guess other's would be. BUT, you have a choice who to do business with, and you even get to know what comes with the deal, and what doesn't b/f you make the deal...right?
However, to answer your original question, No I wouldn't be upset, insulted, none of that. That's just part of the privilege of being a skydiver!