After spending over $7000 is it unreasonable to ask for a free reserve pack?

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Nerra

***Are you worried about the gear store reading what you've posted here and not wanting to do business with you any longer? What about the rigger(s)?

Just curious.

I presume this is in reference to me not naming the establishment?

I'm sure if they were to read this they could work out very quickly who I am.

I started the thread not to name and shame but to see if I was being unreasonable in the eyes of other skydivers.

It seems that I am.

Things I have learned from this thread:

1) It is completely unreasonable to ask for discount ever.

2) It is up to the customer to build trust and rapport with the retailer, not the other way round.

3) Large groups of people easily become single tracked about an issue taken completely out of context which would explain how someone like Bush was re-elected or even elected in the first place.

4) There is some underlying sore issue between riggers and retailers that I'm obviously unaware of.

Not regarding not naming names, because I don't think that's an issue because it's such a small community anyway, someone could figure out the store you're referring to. I literally meant being worried about them seeing what you wrote and them calling you out for anything, whether it was a literal interpretation or some other perception.

Always be kinder than you feel.

[quade 3]

Nerra

Things I have learned from this thread...

Things you still seem to have not learned.

1) Prior purchases do not entitle you to anything other than the standard rate.
2) Never ask people their opinion unless you're willing to hear it.
3) A person makes their own hell.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Nerra 0]

quade

***Things I have learned from this thread...

Things you still seem to have not learned.

1) Prior purchases do not entitle you to anything other than the standard rate.
2) Never ask people their opinion unless you're willing to hear it.
3) A person makes their own hell.

1) Never did I say I was entitled to anything. I asked if it was a reasonable request. I still believe it was. The company isn't obliged to give me any kind of discount and neither am I to shop there again.

2) I heard every bit of it. Some opinions I took on board and others I didn't.

3) You obviously have first hand experience of this judging by your general people skills.

[normiss 622]

The irony of number 3.

[quade 3]

Nerra

...I asked if it was a reasonable request. I still believe it was.... Some opinions I took on board and others I didn't.

Precisely. You "took on board" the opinions you already had and rejected out of hand those of others you didn't.

When you ask people what their opinions are, all of them are valid even if you don't agree with them. Yet, for some reason, you believe anything said that you don't agree with is somehow an attack on you. It's not. It's simply another opinion ... that YOU asked for.

You don't have to get hostile or defensive, but you did, in fact, ask for those opinions.

Just like you asked for a free reserve pack job and when somebody said no, you got all hot and bothered and started complaining about it to complete strangers on the internet. So much so you've dug a little bit of a hole for yourself here.

My advise would be to stop digging.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[yoink 321]

Nerra

Was my request unreasonable?

No.

But it wasn't unreasonable for them to say no either.

It is unreasonable for you to expect special treatment.


You don't pay your way to favours in this sport. Most people here has spent the same or more than you...

Spend time on the DZ and offer to drive the bus to pick up jumpers. Catch tandems. Serve behind the bar. spend time looking for jumpers who land off or packing up at the end of the day and then maybe you'll get an occasional freebie. That's how you earn loyalty and respect. You GIVE to the sport and it'll give back. Your cash has nothing to do with it.

I don't know you, and I really hope you're different to how your first post makes you come across, because I can't explain how much it irritated me as soon as I read it. Honestly, I usually read a thread to completion before I comment, but not this time...


"I paid money. Give me free stuff. WAAA!"

[skymama 35]

From looking at when you first joined the site to now, I'm going to assume this is your first rig? If so, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt at being a newbie in the sport and not knowing the relationship between riggers and skydiving stores. I didn't know this when I first started skydiving either. Actually, there's a LOT I didn't know when I first started skydiving. I thought the skydiving world would be just like any other retail experience. It's not.

I also understand how you would not consider the money you set aside as your "disposable" income. I worked a second job so I could buy my rig. That wasn't my bill money that I earned, that was my rig money. I quit that job when I bought my rig. I get it.

Going forward, I think you've probably learned that there IS a special relationship that riggers have with skydiving stores and that their services are not considered part of the overhead and mark-up costs of the price of the rig. If you feel you had good customer service up until the point of asking for the packing discount, I think you should just chalk that off to "lesson learned" and not hold a grudge against the woman you talked to.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Nataly 38]

Nerra

Someone mentioned free shipping... how is that any different to asking the company to cover the cost of a reserve pack?

Perception.

Quote

judging by the logic in this thread we're now saying it's okay for the UPS guy not to get paid. But we wouldn't think that because we assume he will still get paid and that it is the shop that swallows the cost of the shipping.

Judging by you responses it seems you still do not get it. People reacted to your question exactly the same way as the store did... This should tell you that you are: a) dealing with a bunch of morons, or b) not asking the question in the right way. I think "b" is more likely.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[PLFXpert 0]

Quote

Someone mentioned free shipping

Me. I hate paying shipping; I shop a LOT online. I prefer online shopping and make the majority of my purchases online. I hate going into a store and being swooned over.

I understand wanting a discount. I rarely pay retail (hate that, too). The difference with free shipping is it is part of the overall sale/package on the gear store end of business. And personally I would rather ask for free shipping than a discount on a life-saving pack job. I would guess the amount is about the same, but free shipping is a more common practice/easy to execute request from a business-standpoint.

If all else fails (this rarely happens, exception being Louis Vuitton ), and I pay retail for a large purchase, I ask for "extras" that can be thrown in--be it shipping, or accessories or cleaning/care/item protection products or a discount card toward a future purchase. Sometimes I end up with all of the above totaling more than a 10% discount would have been in the first place. It all depends on what is easiest/best for the store at that time. Maybe they have extra inventory of the things they give me free, or whatever. There is a saying, "you catch more flies with honey"...

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[wildcard451 0]

Nataly

***Someone mentioned free shipping... how is that any different to asking the company to cover the cost of a reserve pack?

Perception.

Quote

judging by the logic in this thread we're now saying it's okay for the UPS guy not to get paid. But we wouldn't think that because we assume he will still get paid and that it is the shop that swallows the cost of the shipping.

Judging by you responses it seems you still do not get it. People reacted to your question exactly the same way as the store did... This should tell you that you are: a) dealing with a bunch of morons, or b) not asking the question in the right way. I think "b" is more likely.


HAHAHAHA - on this website he is also dealing with a bunch of morons that like to talk for the sake of hearing themselves talk.

Skymama actually had one of the more well reasoned posts on this topic a page or so back.

The one thing I am not sure if people mentioned was whether or not the rigging loft at this DZ is a part of the store or not or a separate company. If they are two separate entities I can see the company rep's indignation.

SO a recap
- a lot of people are calling you an idiot
- I personally think that most of them are overreacting, and that your request wasn't unreasonable, however, you made errors:
- You should make any negotiations when you have not spent any money yet, when you still have buying power and leverage
- You probably got screwed by paying full MSRP since no one pays full retail, unless it is one or two canopies that you don't seem to have the sport experience to purchase


Take this as a lesson.

Also another lesson - you can't post anything on dz.com without a bunch of whining mother fuckers rushing to put you down just to make themselves feel better.

[normiss 622]

In my defense, I didn't know she was a mother at that point in time.

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Quote

Also another lesson - you can't post anything on dz.com without a bunch of whining mother fuckers rushing to put you down just to make themselves feel better.

Wow. Really? I find there's a ton of very smart people with very different backgrounds who give many different views on many different subjects. I'm grateful to have them to float ideas and get honest feedback. I never thought anyone was a bunch of whining mother fuckers.

Always be kinder than you feel.

[normiss 622]

Apparently when you openly solicit random opinions, then receive them, only to defiantly attack and insult the response, some of us can only expect to soon be classified as whining mother fuckers.
On both sides of the subject for that matter.

[quade 3]

Since the original poster seems to have backed off I see no benefit in this thread continuing.

Let's give it a rest and let the kid regroup his thinking.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Doug_Davis 0]

Quote

Over the last month I've spent over $7000 at a popular online skydiving store and paid full retail price on every item. Naturally I asked for a little bit of a discount at the end. The curt response I received was that they absolutely cannot do any discounts due to rules set by the manufacturers.

You should have gone with TSO-D. The Skydiving Outlet- Deland. I got some sweet discounts from Arlo. Also awesome customer service!

[JohnMitchell 14]

GooniesKid

And to the dude that makes an analogy like buying a car? One difference though, skydiving market is a smaller compared to the car market.

It's a smaller market, but it's still a market. Nothing wrong with negotiating a better price or freebie or two. I've certainly done it. I feel I support the sport well enough, but business is business. Plenty of gear dealers out there offering great prices and good service, even a few sales. It's your money. Why should you give it away freely?

[Trafficdiver 8]

Quote

1) Never did I say I was entitled to anything. I asked if it was a reasonable request. I still believe it was. The company isn't obliged to give me any kind of discount and neither am I to shop there again.

So....what's the point of this thread if you already know this.

To bitch and complain on the Internet?

Good work!

[JohnMitchell 14]

normiss

You're missing the DZ to rigger relationship and agreements as well.
Which is why so many of us feel this would equate to asking a rigger to work for free.

My wife's Fiat dealership sent her a coupon for a free oil change. Do you think they won't pay the mechanic in the shop that does it?

[skymama 35]

Quote

So....what's the point of this thread if you already know this.

To bitch and complain on the Internet?

Skydivers bitching and complaining is half the content on this website!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[normiss 622]

Nope. He's an employee.
I know few gear stores with riggers on staff.
Usually a contractor.
Oil changes are not required to make your car legal either.
Different set of responsibilities IMO.

I take my discount by being an "out of state" customer.
7% off the price is pretty decent to me.
It allowed me some pocket change to get my rig put together.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Nerra

The curt response I received was that they absolutely cannot do any discounts due to rules set by the manufacturers.

That person lied to you. Many sell gear below MSRP. There IS a bottom price for some manufacturers.

Quote

Well... you would think I was asking for this woman's first born! She went off on one telling me how she doesn't get free reserve pack jobs even though she works there and how I shouldn't be trying to take money away from the riggers.

Not exactly the calm approach I'd use with a customer that had spent $7000, or with any person, for that matter. You can say "no, sorry, we can't do that" without all the hysterics.


Sorry, everyone, for not going with the majority opinion. I just really don't think this person was way out of line.

[JohnMitchell 14]

normiss

Nope. He's an employee.
I know few gear stores with riggers on staff.
Usually a contractor.

If gear stores don't have staff riggers, they have ones they contract with regularly. They could take a few $$$ out of the $7000 they have in the till and buy the person a pack job, if they chose to do so for customer relations.

Or they could more politely explain the situation to the customer. I think the salesperson's (alleged or perceived, possibly) attitude was the biggest part of the problem.

I've swung deals for free assembly, etc. in the past. Money talks. Just make the deal first, not later.

[tbrown 26]

I agree that you might have used free assembly as an upfront negotiating tactic, but it seems that didn't happen. Nobody's fault, but that ship has sailed.

You're not just looking for a pack job, you're looking for (or should be looking for) complete inspection of ALL components, as well as the installation and assembly of those components - correctly done. Believe me, there are some riggers who can - and have - done it wrong. Happened to me on a rig once long, long ago (1978, so nobody I know now). If at all possible, you should be there to observe and learn. Choose a rigger the way you would choose a pediatrician.

And everybody, let's drop the "douchy" bs. I realize this the dramazone, but let's ALL be adults.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[normiss 622]

Your are precisely correct.

Just don't throw it out there AFTER you made your deal and everyone should be happy.

It's generally pretty funny how low cost items add to the warm and fuzzies too. "I GOT A T-SHIRT!"

[vision 0]

Quote

judging by the logic in this thread we're now saying it's okay for the UPS guy not to get paid.

Exactly,

Interesting thread, it really shows how people like to act like they are superior citizens on the internet to gather some kind of personal reward.

I believe if you had of asked before you purchased the whole shabang that you would have got the pack job. Because they had already got the money out of you and knew you 'could afford' new gear, that you would likely buy the reserve too.

There is nothing wrong with bargaining for a better deal.

As a previous business owner, we had a policy of only offering discounts on certain thresholds. For a gear store your purchases in the top dollar range and getting people to continue to make such purchases should be in their best interests.

Even if you are small fry compared to some of their customers they should not make you feel out of line for asking, especially if they want you to continue shopping there, or if they want any of your friends or comrades to do the same. They obviously did.

It seems the response you received was less than professional. Even if they said no and had a policy not to discount, ever... they should have at least been polite about it and apologised (even if they do not mean it). Anyone that has worked in service or retail in a successful business should know this.

I have not heard you bitching like some have implied, you simply asked is people thought it was acceptable or not. And you have given rational replies that a few do not agree with.

After reading most of the thread that is going around in circles... I suggest you name the retailer and let the readers decide whether to take their business there or not.

I would not.

Many people read and do not reply, and when a bandwagon is started like this, people are far less likely to support you and 'the gang' will attack them also for doing so. Nobody likes being attacked by the gang.

Call me shallow, but I like being wooed over when I spends thousands of dollars, just like I was willing to do when customers of mine were spending thousands of dollars with me.

Bad reviews are the unfortunate response to poor service, those I avoided with a passion.

The retailer was definitely in within their rights to refuse any sort of discount, and they were also within their rights to make condescending implications.

How you respond is also up to you.

Retailers take about 10-30% commission on gear sales...

Do the math.