kallend 1,623 #26 August 14, 2014 Calvin19***Isn't skydiving already regulated? You can't just show up at a DZ and jump without a license. Legally, No. Anyone with a legal aircraft, legal pilot, and legal equipment in legal airspace can make a parachute jump. Industry regulation keeps the sport in check. FAR Parts 91 and 105 ARE regulations if you're in the USA, and they apply to all civilian jumps.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #27 August 14, 2014 SethInMI*** I don't mean recovering from another county. I mean recovering from those who got rescued directly. And if they chose not to call 911 and die; Well, isn't this a thread about adults making their own decisions and being responsible for them? The problem with that is often the most irresponsible are irresponsible in financial areas, i.e., they have little money, and it would be expensive to try and get it from them. Hospitals have the same problems with the uninsured, they just end up eating a lot of the costs. [actually I don't know that there is a correlation between the two, but the fact is there are a lot of those who can't afford a rescue] And we often read about charity drives to raise money for broken skydivers who can't afford the cost of the life flight, ER, and the orthopedic surgery.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #28 August 15, 2014 kallend ******Isn't skydiving already regulated? You can't just show up at a DZ and jump without a license. Legally, No. Anyone with a legal aircraft, legal pilot, and legal equipment in legal airspace can make a parachute jump. Industry regulation keeps the sport in check. FAR Parts 91 and 105 ARE regulations if you're in the USA, and they apply to all civilian jumps. Pretty sure I didn't stutter. but yeah, if you're not doing anything stupid like throwing debris onto the highway or landing in a stadium (the 'legal airspace' stipulation should cover those anyway) then anyone, literally anyone, licensed or not, can make a parachute jump. Maybe I forgot 'landowner permission', but I assumed the airspace thing would deal with that. " Anyone with a legal aircraft, legal pilot, and legal equipment in legal airspace can make a parachute jump. " I think that covers 91 ad 105 -SPACE- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #29 August 15, 2014 Calvin19 Maybe I forgot 'landowner permission', but I assumed the airspace thing would deal with that. Nope, two different things.As far as airspace, some requires permission to jump, but most doesn't. Just a one minute prior traffic advisory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #30 August 15, 2014 As far as I can ascertain, having asked around, here on the Spanish side of the Pyrenees mountains, you do something stupid like not going prepared, and have to call the rescue services, then you are billed. If you fall and break something (an accident) then the rescue is free. Weather closing in is not an accident. Climbing and getting stuck is not an accident. Not judging a climb and calling for help as night closes in is not an accident. One thing the Spanish have mastered the art of, is that if you owe money to the government or any of the services they WILL take it straight from your bank account or tax returns. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #31 August 15, 2014 JohnMitchell ***Maybe I forgot 'landowner permission', but I assumed the airspace thing would deal with that. Nope, two different things.As far as airspace, some requires permission to jump, but most doesn't. Just a one minute prior traffic advisory. Very true. With landowner permission. I However, the root of the question/OP was skydiver regulation. The individual parachutist is NOT regulated by any law in US and its territories. Anyone can make a jump, regardless of any industry issued 'license' they have or do not have, assuming the FARs are followed. You do not need any license to jump. As long as the farmer says it's ok. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #32 August 15, 2014 Calvin19 The individual parachutist is NOT regulated by any law in US and its territories. Anyone can make a jump, regardless of any industry issued 'license' they have or do not have, assuming the FARs are followed. You do not need any license to jump. As long as the farmer says it's ok. Just remember that the FAR's are law, and you can get in big trouble busting 'em. But correct, the USPA does not regulate skydiving. You can ignore them all day long and skydive to your heart's content. I've known a couple of folks that have done just that. Isn't the same true with tandems. As long as you have your Manufacturer's rating, you don't need a USPA ticket, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #33 August 15, 2014 Quote Quote The individual parachutist is NOT regulated by any law in US and its territories. Anyone can make a jump, regardless of any industry issued 'license' they have or do not have, assuming the FARs are followed. You do not need any license to jump. As long as the farmer says it's ok. Quote Just remember that the FAR's are law, and you can get in big trouble busting 'em. Absolutely. I have had many dealing with the FAA, field and office. Not all of them I initiated. I know how it works better than most, for better or worse. Quote But correct, the USPA does not regulate skydiving. You can ignore them all day long and skydive to your heart's content. I've known a couple of folks that have done just that. I'm one of them. Most of my jumps are at a drop zone, some are demos, a handful are just me and my friends who also have airplanes and parachutes. And we always follows the FARs. I'm sure everyone and every DZ jumper on this forum also does. Quote Isn't the same true with tandems. As long as you have your Manufacturer's rating, you don't need a USPA ticket, right? I do not know. I never finished my tandem rating and the initial training was a long time ago. I would GUESS that you would need to comply with Manufacturer requirements and ratings, but not a USPA rating. But I honestly do not know that for sure, it's not what I do. A guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #34 August 15, 2014 It will be a sad day if the government bureaucrats ever gain control of Mountaineering. Years ago I was already into some Rock Climbing and decided to do something more ambitious than just a hike up an easy 14er. I did a guided Mountaineering weekend trip in the CO San Juan mountain range. Both the guides we hired were experienced climbers (one of them didn't like the crowds of Everest and instead had successfully climbed K2). Some of slopes they took us up and down on was not at the level of difficulty of a K2, Eiger or Everest climb. But it was still an eye opener for me doing some Mountaineering climbing up and down couloirs using ice picks and crampons. My guides were responsible for choosing what routes we took, but I was still responsible for my own actions in terms of "Did I have a sure foot, before I took that next step". While my guides were experienced Mountaineers, even guides can make mistakes. At one point of the trip near the summit of one of the mountains we scaled, we got caught in a wicked whiteout blizzard. My guides ended up taking us down the wrong valley. By the time the weather cleared up and the guides realized the group was not where we should have been, the sun was already setting, I was tired and almost out of water and things all of a sudden didn't look as a rosy as they were earlier in the day. We had no choice, dead men stay on mountains waiting to die. So we began the long slog to get back to where we needed to be. The sun had set, I was beginning to lose my strength and wondering would I get off this mountain or would this be my end. Soon after this one of the guides caught up to me, and he gave me a pill. To this day I do not know what he gave me, but 30 minutes later I felt like superman and we all made it safely off the mountain. I did not sleep for 2 days (no shit, I did not sleep for 2 days once I got home). Mountaineering is not safe. There are aspects of the sport that can kill even the most experienced climbers. But successful Mountaineering does rely on education, does rely on experience, does rely on good judgement and does rely on people climbing with other people they can trust. Let's let the Mountaineers regulate themselves by making sure people people are aware to not climbing alone, be educated and be prepared. Let's keep government out of the sport. Government has a way of screwing everything up they touch. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #35 August 18, 2014 Oh you replied, I've been busy these past few days to notice. One man's opinion is another man's rant. S'pose its where one stands on the issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites