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BillyVance

Antares rocket just blew up today

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Here's another view, this time from the press area. Take and look and listen for the grown people crying and screaming. And let me know what you heard. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0SgAU9LXI

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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Apparently, Elon Musk called it two years ago. They were using not just 1960's Russian rocket motor technology, but ACTUAL 1960's Russian rocket motors???

:S:S:S

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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jumpwally

I don't care what it costs but we need to be the leaders in the space tech programs,,never should have shuttered the program,,,,,>:(



I fully agree. If you're gonna retire the shuttle fleet, have something else already set up to take over, under US control. You've got a space station up there with people on it. >:(

Fuck, we could have just continued with the shuttle system. It works. Just build a new one each time an old one is due to retire. :|
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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I disagree. If the government always owns it, then the level of vigor is reduced over the years, in part because the increasing maturity of the program makes risk management take more and more into account. I know that sounds like a good thing when one just blew up, and in part it is, but it means that we continue to use 1970's technology, and the processes and thought patterns that led to that 1970's technology.
There will be other problems. We will learn from them. But those lessons will hopefully be added to the clean slate of a well-thought-out new technology and process (using 40 years' worth of knowledge and lessons to develop), instead of those lessons being patchworked into 40 years' worth of lessons. There's a difference, to me.

Could the government have done that? Yes. But with all the I-told-you-so coming from inside, it would have been slower and probably more derivative. That's not always bad, but sometimes it really makes for a new approach.

I'll admit that using a 1960's rocket with a history doesn't sound like the best basis :)
Edit to add: this should not imply anything about the contractors and government employees with whom I worked while I was on shuttle. They were virtually all very smart, disciplined, and personally dedicated to making the shuttle as safe and good as possible. Many would disagree with my thoughts, and I'd listen to theirs because their experience counts.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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BillyVance
Do you have an transcript of the audio? In the voice track, someone says "Engines at 108%." Seems like someone opened the throttle a bit too much. :D:D

I know that going above 100% is common for some launch vehicles, but it's a good reminder of how close to the edge of destruction these machines run, almost like top fuel dragsters. ;)

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yoink

Quote


You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder....



Poignant social commentary from Armageddon. :ph34r::ph34r:


Awesome. Good flick. But yeah, space exploration and missions have always been experimental. Anything can go wrong.

As for Wendy's post... I just wish we would have developed each next generation's space launch vehicles into launch-ready mode by the time the previous generation was retired, and not have several years long gaps in between. Then again, there wasn't enough manpower or budget room to run one and develop another at the same time I don't think...
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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LOL the N-1 was Johnny-Come-Lately 60's tech and was a massive failure for the Soviet space program.



To be fair, the main problem with the N1 was the sheer number of motors required for the first stage - they simply weren't able to get them all working together without the vibrations ripping the thing apart.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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[Reply]"Engines at 108%." Seems like someone opened the throttle a bit too much.



Naw. It merely means that improvements to the engine have allowed it to make 108% of the required thrust.

We saw it with the Shuttle's SSMEs. The originals got to 100% of Rated power level. As the engines were improved, they got up over that. Rather thand go back and redo all the math, it was easier just to assign power level at 104% or something on throttle up.

I don't think the engines on the Antares are throttleable. It's just that the power rating has improved so that they get an extra 8% of maximum thrust.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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[Reply] I just wish we would have developed each next generation's space launch vehicles into launch-ready mode by the time the previous generation was retired, and not have several years long gaps in between. Then again, there wasn't enough manpower or budget room to run one and develop another at the same time I don't think...



Never has been. Only between Apollo and Skylab missions was therfe less than a couple of years. And that's because Skylab used Apollo equipment.

From end of Skylab to first Shuttle launch was 7 years! (Apollo-Soyuz excepted - again, it used Apollo equipment). We're not behind schedule, if history is any example.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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RobertMBlevins

Well, I can take a guess on WHY the Antares blew up. Check THIS:

Quote

'The Antares is powered by the AJ-26 engine built by GenCorp Inc division Aerojet Rocketdyne - a refurbished version of the Soviet-era NK-33 engine developed for the heavy-lift N-1 moon rocket....'


LOL the N-1 was Johnny-Come-Lately 60's tech and was a massive failure for the Soviet space program. It was the Russian equivelent of the Saturn V, with an even larger first stage. When it blew up at about 12K feet during testing (yep), it effectively ended Russia's chances of beating the USA to the moon. Its explosion is often named as either THE biggest, or one of the biggest explosions ever created by man without the use of a nuke. :S


The NK-33 was not itself a bad rocket engine, the N1 rocket itself was the problem. Beautiful machine, just flawed to the core.
Clustering 30 engines and using dominantly balanced throttling to control pitch and yaw instead of proven gimbaling or plume-vane control just did not work out very well for them.

And from an energy release standpoint the N1 pad failure was the largest non-nuclear 'explosion' in history. Like you said this is the or one of the biggest, the rub is in how you define it. It was an uncontrolled release of energy, but not an explosion in the sense of a bomb where force is perpendicular to the epicenter or the speed of expanding material is even remotely uniform.


Rockets are tough.
multiple enormous and complex vehicles stacked up on top of each other, each subsequent part completely dependent on the flawless function of the previous.

Space is tough. It's the tyranny of Tsiolkovsky.

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Probably a good place to get your eardrums blown the fuck out. :S:D

What would be interesting is how far would the shock wave throw an average person back? :ph34r:

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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BillyVance

]
What would be interesting is how far would the shock wave throw an average person back? :ph34r:



You mean as in a standing person in the path of a shock wave/sonic boom? We could figure that out, actually. it depends on the energy in the wave (pressure difference between high and low and the size of the wave as well as the cross-section orientation of the subject.

Or were you asking in the same sense of the common wuffo question about how when someone opens a parachute 'how far do they get sucked back up?" after seeing an external tandem video. :P

-SPACE-

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Calvin19

***]
What would be interesting is how far would the shock wave throw an average person back? :ph34r:



You mean as in a standing person in the path of a shock wave/sonic boom? We could figure that out, actually. it depends on the energy in the wave (pressure difference between high and low and the size of the wave as well as the cross-section orientation of the subject.

Or were you asking in the same sense of the common wuffo question about how when someone opens a parachute 'how far do they get sucked back up?" after seeing an external tandem video. :P

Just straight up stand where the camera was and let the blast wave do the work. :P

On second thought, maybe a 6'-0" 180 lb mannequin will do just fine. :D
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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BillyVance

Probably a good place to get your eardrums blown the fuck out. :S:D

What would be interesting is how far would the shock wave throw an average person back? :ph34r:



Fermi's method of estimating the power of the Trinity A-bomb test in 1945.
\
www.dannen.com/decision/fermi.html
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

***Probably a good place to get your eardrums blown the fuck out. :S:D

What would be interesting is how far would the shock wave throw an average person back? :ph34r:



Fermi's method of estimating the power of the Trinity A-bomb test in 1945.
\
www.dannen.com/decision/fermi.html

For some visual learners:P;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IteNFhPuOk4

There are a few ways a bomb can kill people, irradiation(if it is nuclear), heat radiation(if they are close enough and the bomb is hot enough) and the pressure wave. the difference in pressure between the front of the wave and the behind the wave. (and how quickly that change happens).

There are some very, very scary non-nuclear bombs in existence today. :|

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