swisschris62 0 #1 November 29, 2014 http://www.westernjournalism.com/nothing-short-miracle-none-passengers-killed/ How bad does it have to get here before they shut it down? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 64 #2 November 29, 2014 This is from the description of flying, "99% boredom and 1 % sheer terror" came from...Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #3 November 29, 2014 It’s Nothing Short Of A Miracle That None Of These Passengers Were Killed I hate these kinds of headlines.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tisket 0 #4 November 29, 2014 More like - It's nothing short of a miracle that none of these pilots needed a change of pants I sure wouldn't want to be behind the controls at that place.If you can't convince them, keep them confused. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #5 November 29, 2014 Tisket More like - It's nothing short of a miracle that none of these pilots needed a change of pants I sure wouldn't want to be behind the controls at that place. I'm not a pilot and admire the skill of those pilots landing and attempting to land in these conditions. With that said, I don't ever need a "hero" pilot that will get me to my destination, no matter what. I like the pilots that know how to say "No". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tisket 0 #6 November 29, 2014 JohnMitchell I'm not a pilot and admire the skill of those pilots landing and attempting to land in these conditions. With that said, I don't ever need a "hero" pilot that will get me to my destination, no matter what. I like the pilots that know how to say "No". I agree completely. I can't help but wonder if the crosswinds are so severe (and from the looks of it, common), why aren't there runways on a different heading? Either way, that place is on the list of nopes.If you can't convince them, keep them confused. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #7 November 29, 2014 swisschris62 How bad does it have to get here before they shut it down? It's up to the pilot. The planes each have their own max crosswind component allowed (part of the certification process) Crosswind landings (presuming the pilot is reasonably skilled) look a lot scarier than they really are. Gusty conditions make it more challenging, but again, it looks a lot scarier than it really is. The wing flexing is normal, and these planes have enough mass (inertia) that they react to gusts a lot slower than we are used to, flying nylon canopies (and the wings won't collapse either). I've pushed a Cessna right up to the limits, and it wasn't that big of a deal. Proper technique and staying on top of it is vital, but it's actually worse on the ground, especially in a high wing, like a Cessna."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #8 November 29, 2014 Tisket ***I'm not a pilot and admire the skill of those pilots landing and attempting to land in these conditions. With that said, I don't ever need a "hero" pilot that will get me to my destination, no matter what. I like the pilots that know how to say "No". I agree completely. I can't help but wonder if the crosswinds are so severe (and from the looks of it, common), why aren't there runways on a different heading? Either way, that place is on the list of nopes. Lack of space. Looking at google maps, the closest apartment buildings seem to be less then half a mile away from the runway.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #9 November 29, 2014 Arvoitus Lack of space. Looking at google maps, the closest apartment buildings seem to be less then half a mile away from the runway. Exactly. Seatac airport, which serves Seattle, has 3 parallel runways running North-South squeezed side by side. There's absolutely no real estate available for an East-West runway. Many airports, such as SFO, ORD, BOS and many others do have the luxury of crosswind runways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #10 November 29, 2014 wolfriverjoe*** How bad does it have to get here before they shut it down? It's up to the pilot. The planes each have their own max crosswind component allowed (part of the certification process) Crosswind landings (presuming the pilot is reasonably skilled) look a lot scarier than they really are. Gusty conditions make it more challenging, but again, it looks a lot scarier than it really is. The wing flexing is normal, and these planes have enough mass (inertia) that they react to gusts a lot slower than we are used to, flying nylon canopies (and the wings won't collapse either). I've pushed a Cessna right up to the limits, and it wasn't that big of a deal. Proper technique and staying on top of it is vital, but it's actually worse on the ground, especially in a high wing, like a Cessna. the POH says demonstrated crosswind component, not limit, this means the highest crosswind that the plane was landed in during the certification process. I have landed many aircraft in higher crosswinds then were stated in the POH. The ability to arrest drift and align the aircraft with the centerline and maintain is the important part, gusty conditions and rotors make it more difficult.Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #11 November 29, 2014 godfrog the POH says demonstrated crosswind component, not limit, this means the highest crosswind that the plane was landed in during the certification process. I have landed many aircraft in higher crosswinds then were stated in the POH. The ability to arrest drift and align the aircraft with the centerline and maintain is the important part, gusty conditions and rotors make it more difficult. Oops. Demonstrated, not limit. It's been a while. I was always taught that the demonstrated number was a good place to put a "limit." I agree that "maintain control" is the deciding factor, and that gusts & rotors make it more... Interesting."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neflier 0 #12 November 30, 2014 wolfriverjoe*** the POH says demonstrated crosswind component, not limit, this means the highest crosswind that the plane was landed in during the certification process. I have landed many aircraft in higher crosswinds then were stated in the POH. The ability to arrest drift and align the aircraft with the centerline and maintain is the important part, gusty conditions and rotors make it more difficult. Oops. Demonstrated, not limit. It's been a while. I was always taught that the demonstrated number was a good place to put a "limit." I agree that "maintain control" is the deciding factor, and that gusts & rotors make it more... Interesting. True, but airline ops (121) changes things. A crew that exceeds a max demonstrated crosswind is taking a personal risk if things go south. I can't think of a single crew member that I was paired with that would exceed the published max crosswind component. We just didn't want to take that risk. With that said, I've landed piston singles in conditions that exceeded the max demonstrated crosswind component. Under 121, with paying pax in the back, never.Life is too short to drink cheap beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #13 November 30, 2014 it seems as if at least some of these airliners where there, I didn't see much of a side slip going on, looked like they were trying to use rudder to land. I was once flying as a passenger into Fairbanks Ak and had a window seat, short final I was watching out the window looking right down center line, it did make me a bit uneasy....Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neflier 0 #14 November 30, 2014 godfrogit seems as if at least some of these airliners where there, I didn't see much of a side slip going on, looked like they were trying to use rudder to land. I was once flying as a passenger into Fairbanks Ak and had a window seat, short final I was watching out the window looking right down center line, it did make me a bit uneasy.... What is missing from the videos is what the reported winds were.Life is too short to drink cheap beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boyfalldown 0 #15 November 30, 2014 Godfrog, you can't slip something with a 100' wingspan like you can a Cessna or a Cherokee. With a long wingspan a big forward slip will result in you dragging your wingtips across the ground. Wings level and kick the rudder is all you can do, unless you have crosswind gear like a 47. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theplummeter 14 #16 November 30, 2014 boyfalldownGodfrog, you can't slip something with a 100' wingspan like you can a Cessna or a Cherokee. With a long wingspan a big forward slip will result in you dragging your wingtips across the ground. Wings level and kick the rudder is all you can do, unless you have crosswind gear like a 47. Most transport category aircraft have both bank and pitch limits to prevent a wing or tail strike, and the gear is often designed to land with a side load. Many of the larger aircraft also have landing gear that can caster. I think the camera angle contributed to what seems worse than it probably was, the sink rate and runway looked pretty bad, especially when the Dash 8 was landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,382 #17 November 30, 2014 boyfalldownWings level and kick the rudder is all you can do, unless you have crosswind gear like a 47. B-52's have it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCUHQ_-l6Qg"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 2 #18 November 30, 2014 Luckily they have that nice level runway to land on .... Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akjmpplt 0 #19 December 1, 2014 boyfalldownGodfrog, you can't slip something with a 100' wingspan like you can a Cessna or a Cherokee. With a long wingspan a big forward slip will result in you dragging your wingtips across the ground. Wings level and kick the rudder is all you can do, unless you have crosswind gear like a 47. Depends on the airplane. Landed the B-24 in Baton Rouge with 28G36 80 degrees to the runway…wing low to counter wind with the slip, rudder (and differential power) to keep the fuselage aligned with the runway. Of course the Liberator sets tall on the gear and doesn't have any of those disgusting kerosene burning things hanging below the wing. :)SmugMug Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #20 December 1, 2014 slips...[/url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0DTjWlafkw[url]Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #21 December 1, 2014 it didn't link but the video explains slips, forward and side.Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #22 December 1, 2014 ***slips...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0DTjWlafkw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #23 December 1, 2014 thanks JohnExperience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuna-Salad 0 #24 December 2, 2014 LoL Sensationalized much? I love the comment section too. So many experts appear online.Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
