normiss 749 #26 February 6, 2015 WTH are all these handles for??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #27 February 6, 2015 bob.dinoFuuuuck: https://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/563617274230497280 Quote#TransAsia FDR data seems to suggest right-hand engine flamed out, but then left-hand engine was shut down. #GE235 This seems to be a rather not rare occurrence. Happened at Perris. At Lodi. Those are just the incidents I can think of in skydiving offhand, and it's done in other airliners, too. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #28 February 6, 2015 BBC News telling same story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31162351 "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #29 February 6, 2015 So they're saying the crew shut off the wrong engine? Ouch."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #30 February 6, 2015 More technical detail on what the pilots did: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/learmount/2015/02/short-flight-transasia-ge235/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #31 February 6, 2015 bob.dinoMore technical detail on what the pilots did: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/learmount/2015/02/short-flight-transasia-ge235/"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #33 February 6, 2015 Damn.It's happened before. I'm afraid it will happen again. I'm not a multi-engine rated pilot, so I can't say how this could happen or what could prevent it. I guess I'll just say that if you have a positive rate of climb, take a deep breath and analyze carefully before you do anything drastic, like shutting down an engine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,921 #34 February 6, 2015 A number of Asian airline disasters recently.... some have suggested that over-reliance on autopilots and insufficient emphasis on hand flying is a contributing factor.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #35 February 6, 2015 I think this has been posted on here before. Seems like in Korea at least it is somewhat of a cultural problemYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeJD 0 #36 February 6, 2015 lawrocket***Fuuuuck: https://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/563617274230497280 Quote#TransAsia FDR data seems to suggest right-hand engine flamed out, but then left-hand engine was shut down. #GE235 This seems to be a rather not rare occurrence. Happened at Perris. At Lodi. Those are just the incidents I can think of in skydiving offhand, and it's done in other airliners, too. Slightly different circumstances, but I was instantly reminded of the Kegworth crash in '89. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #37 February 6, 2015 kallend A number of Asian airline disasters recently.... some have suggested that over-reliance on autopilots and insufficient emphasis on hand flying is a contributing factor. I also can't help but think that the elimination of the flight engineer in the cockpit also plays a role. When the shit hits the turbofan and the computer meant to replace the FE goes out (during a stressful situation that turns over to manual flight in dodgy conditions) you've now got a massive workload. Pilots are stuck uncurrent with manual flight and trying to do the job of a flight engineer to resolve the systems issues. I don't think it's just an issue of lack of real competence with manual flight (though it's a huge issue) but also with suddenly going into manual flight at the same time being suddenly forced to be a FE. Three people used to do the job. Now it's two doing the job of three. And at a bad time. Think a flight engineer would have been handy on these flights going down in foul weather? Someone who is a systems pro and can make sense of what is going on while the other guys keep the bird in the air based on the FE's advice? We've gone backwards in redundancy My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #38 February 6, 2015 BillyVanceone article said 23 dead, 15 survivors, and 20 missing. Numbers will undoubtedly change. It did look like the pilots deliberately went for the river to better the odds of survival. At that angle when it hit the bridge I felt sure all on board were goners. Then I wondered why there wasn't a fireball. There was nothing intentional about what happened once the shit hit the fan."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #39 February 6, 2015 kallend A number of Asian airline disasters recently.... some have suggested that over-reliance on autopilots and insufficient emphasis on hand flying is a contributing factor. According to a flight instructor who posts in our group and teaches pilots for several of the Asian airlines this suggestion is entirely accurate."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #40 February 6, 2015 DJL***one article said 23 dead, 15 survivors, and 20 missing. Numbers will undoubtedly change. It did look like the pilots deliberately went for the river to better the odds of survival. At that angle when it hit the bridge I felt sure all on board were goners. Then I wondered why there wasn't a fireball. There was nothing intentional about what happened once the shit hit the fan. I know that now. I made that post before the news came out that the pilots shut down the good engine by mistake."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flusspirat 0 #41 February 6, 2015 Well, yes and no. The FE certainly reduces the workload during normal operations and even more so in abnormal situations (think "human FADEC/voice controlled auto thrust" etc.). BUT depending on the emergency he just might add to the confusion and make communication harder. The pilots on a modern multi engine, multicrew aircraft should be capable of handling an engine failure just fine on their own. Normal procedure (or at least what they taught us) requires both pilots to identify the engine that is about to be shut down - which usually takes longer than the 5s the TransAsia crew aparently took before shutting down their good engine. On a side note: Someone on pprune pointed out that a lot of the recent crashes involved planes that had more than 2 people in the cockpit at the time of the accident (granted those were pilots on the jump seat, not FEs). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #42 February 6, 2015 Rick I think this has been posted on here before. Seems like in Korea at least it is somewhat of a cultural problem Omigawd, that is scary!Note to self: NEVER fly an Asian airline!"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #43 February 8, 2015 "TransAsia GE235 crash: Flights cancelled to train Taiwan pilots": http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31204059"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #44 February 13, 2015 Korean Air jet clips parked plane at night, still takes off Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #45 February 13, 2015 Andy9o8 Korean Air jet clips parked plane at night, still takes off Going to be tough to come up with names for the crew on that one... Capt Bang Wing Ngo"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #46 February 14, 2015 BillyVance *** Korean Air jet clips parked plane at night, still takes off Going to be tough to come up with names for the crew on that one... Capt Bang Wing Ngo Co Pilot -Kno Cee A-tingI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
