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ryoder

TransAsia Plane Crash

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bob.dino

Fuuuuck:

https://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/563617274230497280

Quote

#TransAsia FDR data seems to suggest right-hand engine flamed out, but then left-hand engine was shut down. #GE235



This seems to be a rather not rare occurrence. Happened at Perris. At Lodi. Those are just the incidents I can think of in skydiving offhand, and it's done in other airliners, too.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Damn.[:/]

It's happened before. I'm afraid it will happen again. I'm not a multi-engine rated pilot, so I can't say how this could happen or what could prevent it. I guess I'll just say that if you have a positive rate of climb, take a deep breath and analyze carefully before you do anything drastic, like shutting down an engine.

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lawrocket

***Fuuuuck:

https://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/563617274230497280

Quote

#TransAsia FDR data seems to suggest right-hand engine flamed out, but then left-hand engine was shut down. #GE235



This seems to be a rather not rare occurrence. Happened at Perris. At Lodi. Those are just the incidents I can think of in skydiving offhand, and it's done in other airliners, too.

Slightly different circumstances, but I was instantly reminded of the Kegworth crash in '89.

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kallend


A number of Asian airline disasters recently.... some have suggested that over-reliance on autopilots and insufficient emphasis on hand flying is a contributing factor.



I also can't help but think that the elimination of the flight engineer in the cockpit also plays a role. When the shit hits the turbofan and the computer meant to replace the FE goes out (during a stressful situation that turns over to manual flight in dodgy conditions) you've now got a massive workload.

Pilots are stuck uncurrent with manual flight and trying to do the job of a flight engineer to resolve the systems issues. I don't think it's just an issue of lack of real competence with manual flight (though it's a huge issue) but also with suddenly going into manual flight at the same time being suddenly forced to be a FE. Three people used to do the job. Now it's two doing the job of three. And at a bad time.

Think a flight engineer would have been handy on these flights going down in foul weather? Someone who is a systems pro and can make sense of what is going on while the other guys keep the bird in the air based on the FE's advice?

We've gone backwards in redundancy


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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BillyVance

one article said 23 dead, 15 survivors, and 20 missing. Numbers will undoubtedly change.

It did look like the pilots deliberately went for the river to better the odds of survival. At that angle when it hit the bridge I felt sure all on board were goners. Then I wondered why there wasn't a fireball.



There was nothing intentional about what happened once the shit hit the fan.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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kallend


A number of Asian airline disasters recently.... some have suggested that over-reliance on autopilots and insufficient emphasis on hand flying is a contributing factor.



According to a flight instructor who posts in our group and teaches pilots for several of the Asian airlines this suggestion is entirely accurate.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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DJL

***one article said 23 dead, 15 survivors, and 20 missing. Numbers will undoubtedly change.

It did look like the pilots deliberately went for the river to better the odds of survival. At that angle when it hit the bridge I felt sure all on board were goners. Then I wondered why there wasn't a fireball.



There was nothing intentional about what happened once the shit hit the fan.

I know that now. I made that post before the news came out that the pilots shut down the good engine by mistake.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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Well, yes and no.

The FE certainly reduces the workload during normal operations and even more so in abnormal situations (think "human FADEC/voice controlled auto thrust" etc.). BUT depending on the emergency he just might add to the confusion and make communication harder. The pilots on a modern multi engine, multicrew aircraft should be capable of handling an engine failure just fine on their own.
Normal procedure (or at least what they taught us) requires both pilots to identify the engine that is about to be shut down - which usually takes longer than the 5s the TransAsia crew aparently took before shutting down their good engine.

On a side note: Someone on pprune pointed out that a lot of the recent crashes involved planes that had more than 2 people in the cockpit at the time of the accident (granted those were pilots on the jump seat, not FEs).

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Rick

I think this has been posted on here before.

Seems like in Korea at least it is somewhat of a cultural problem



Omigawd, that is scary!:o
Note to self: NEVER fly an Asian airline!
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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BillyVance


Going to be tough to come up with names for the crew on that one... :D

Capt Bang Wing Ngo

Co Pilot -Kno Cee A-ting
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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