RSL Question

[popsjumper 2]

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USPA verbatim water training here (video)

Was that supposed to be a link?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DSE 3]

Grr...sometimes copy/paste doesn't work the way it should.
http://www.vimeo.com/11609685
Thanks for the catch.

[labrys 0]

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In Reply To
Where did you get that information?

'Parachutist', a few months ago.

Can you be more specific? Month and article? Was this a statement of USPA policy or some random person's opinion?

Owned by Remi #?

[julio_gyn 0]

I have seen some videos of 2 out and people inducing a downplane and cutting away. With safe altitude is it a good idea?

Julio Cesar
blue skies

[dragon2 0]

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I have seen some videos of 2 out and people inducing a downplane and cutting away. With safe altitude is it a good idea?

If you're a beginner or intermediate jumper, or have no CRW experience, no.

Why mess with a stable situation that will not get you killed or most likely not even hurt a little bit (seen plenty of videos of stable 2 out landings, soft landings all), and exchange it for a potentially dangerous if not lethal situation?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[fcajump 153]

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Why would you disconnect an RSL prior to chopping in a 2 out situation? It's seems pointless.

Because there's a small chance the RSL might interfere with a clean cutaway in this case. So, if you have the time, disconnect it if you find yourself under a 2out.

AFAIK if you jump a Racer, in a 2out situation where you weant to cutaway, you *have* to disconnect it even. RTM for that one:

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Owners of the Racer Elite harness/container systems should also be made aware that in the event they have a reserve
canopy deployed before the main, and wish to release the main canopy, the RSL must be disconnected before initiating
the breakaway procedures. Failure to do so could result in the main canopy, still attached to the RSL, sliding up the
reserve lines and collapsing the reserve canopy.

The Racer manufacturer (in a different, recent thread) recommends disconnecting the RSL on all jumps after verifying the main is good. This does not seem to be the consensus opinion.

My experience / training would suggest:
If you have a Racer, either follow the mfg's recommendation, or at least respect the double-total possibility with a two-out-cutaway.
Two-outs (on non-Racers) time permitting, release it. Reduces snag potentials.
High wind conditions* -maybe the reserve wouldn't completely inflate... but it'll cost you a repack at least.
Water landing - given time, this will give you the option of getting loose of the main if it is caught in swift current.
CReW - I'll let Wendy and the 'dogs speak to that.

JW


*remember, that despite the best of plans, a gust front can catch even experienced jumpers unaware... and habits practiced early will pay off when you start jumping in less forgiving conditions.

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[popsjumper 2]

I didn't see the breakaway. Maybe I missed it.

I teach always do the breakaway and here's why...

Sometime in the future you made NEED to breakaway in the water and if it's part of your training and practice, you won't forget it when you need it.

Another thing...leg straps...

I teach don't mess with the leg straps. Particularly under canopy and here's why...

We're talking to A-license people here, let's not forget that.

Loosening leg straps under canopy can be disastrous especially so for young jumpers who do not know to shift weight and counter harness turns. Taking time in the water could be disastrous too if you're having problems keeping your head above water.

You may have noticed that when you are sitting down the leg straps are loose as opposed to what they are while standing or under canopy. It's very easy to push them down off your feet even without prior loosening.

Even if they DO know about shifting weight, it's an activity that really doesn't need to be done and only distracts from more important issues that they are dealing with.

Whaddayasay?


Oh BTW...highly impressed with your work on wingsuit/water landing. Good stuff.


Oh and 1 more edit:
I did notice that the recommendation for disconnecting the RSL was PRIOR to entry, obviously while under canopy, eh?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,379]

>Hey billion where were you jumping where you landed multie times in fast moving ?

NRGB. Was jumping with a sprained ankle one year so I took the river all three times. I tried to land between the really fast moving stuff in the center and the sandbar, in water deep enough that I wouldn't touch bottom.

(Yes, it was dumb to jump with a sprained ankle to begin with . . .)

[DSE 3]

I don't believe in loosening legstraps for many reasons, the largest of which being that it will change the point at which you'll be flaring to half brakes.
USPA gives it as an optional practice.
RSL is recommended to be disconnected prior to water entry.
My feeling is that the RSL release prior to entry is wrongfully emphasised. I've cut away a main in water, twice (intentional landings) I think it's already a stressful situation for most, even experienced skydivers may struggle with the number of things to recall. I teach it, because it's USPA doctrine.

Unfasten chest strap, flare to half, land it with PLF attitude. Get out of it, and get away from the main. I think that summarizes it fairly well.

[Hellis 0]

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I have seen some videos of 2 out and people inducing a downplane and cutting away. With safe altitude is it a good idea?

What altitude do you think is a safe altitude?
At what altitude are you normally at a two out situation?

Unless you have a custom made AAD or some very unlikely doubble premature deployment you are not on a safe altitude in a two out situation to mess around

[julio_gyn 0]

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I have seen some videos of 2 out and people inducing a downplane and cutting away. With safe altitude is it a good idea?

What altitude do you think is a safe altitude?
At what altitude are you normally at a two out situation?

Unless you have a custom made AAD or some very unlikely doubble premature deployment you are not on a safe altitude in a two out situation to mess around

I mean safe altitude when you have a premature deployment, high enough to have time to decide if you are going to act or not. My decision altitude is 2k, I don't think i should try anything stupid under 2k anyway...

Julio Cesar
blue skies

[DSE 3]

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I mean safe altitude when you have a premature deployment, high enough to have time to decide if you are going to act or not. My decision altitude is 2k, I don't think i should try anything stupid under 2k anyway...

How about avoiding anything "stupid" above 2K as well?

Very recently saw a 2 out.
He disconnected his RSL while his hands were in the reserve toggles and converted his side x side into a downplane at 150'.
Depending on the rig and situation...one may be different from another.

[popsjumper 2]

Saw a stable side-by-side in the not-too-distant past...

Toggle jockey trying to turn towards the DZ with a full toggle turn...breakaway was successful, fortunately ...though no thanks to the jumper...he never did check altitude. And that's what got him a 2-out in the first place.


Oh...no RSL disconnect either.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airtwardo 6]

You may have noticed that when you are sitting down the leg straps are loose as opposed to what they are while standing or under canopy. It's very easy to push them down off your feet even without prior loosening.

I hear they are coming out with something 'new' to make such situations safer...SNAPS on the legstraps!

Seems you don't have to be a yoga instructor to get the parachute on & off when using them!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[theonlyski 3]

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You may have noticed that when you are sitting down the leg straps are loose as opposed to what they are while standing or under canopy. It's very easy to push them down off your feet even without prior loosening.

I hear they are coming out with something 'new' to make such situations safer...SNAPS on the legstraps!

Seems you don't have to be a yoga instructor to get the parachute on & off when using them!

I heard about that option... How did you find out about them??

Damn gear makers not spilling the info on all the cool NEW toys.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[popsjumper 2]

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You may have noticed that when you are sitting down the leg straps are loose as opposed to what they are while standing or under canopy. It's very easy to push them down off your feet even without prior loosening.

I hear they are coming out with something 'new' to make such situations safer...SNAPS on the legstraps!

Seems you don't have to be a yoga instructor to get the parachute on & off when using them!

Never heard of 'em....B12 means "vitamin" shots.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[mjosparky 3]

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You may have noticed that when you are sitting down the leg straps are loose as opposed to what they are while standing or under canopy. It's very easy to push them down off your feet even without prior loosening.

I hear they are coming out with something 'new' to make such situations safer...SNAPS on the legstraps!

Seems you don't have to be a yoga instructor to get the parachute on & off when using them!

+1 the proper tool for the job.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Andy9o8 0]

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B12 means "vitamin" shots.

Yup, and I just got a new barber pole to keep my lines straight.

[psychoswooper 2]

If you do land in high winds and have to cut away the main, the RSL will open your reserve. 99 times out of 100, the reserve will not inflate - so that's not really a big issue

Just curious where this figure of 99/100 came from. Has anybody ever actually tested it? Has there ever even been 100 cutaways on the ground with RSLs attached?
In 26 years of being on DZs pretty much full time, I've only ever seen 1 ground deployed reserve by a jumper being dragged in high winds, and in that case the reserve DID inflate and dragged the jumper all the way across the airport into a fence seperating the airport from a highway. Just as easily could've dragged jumper into a spinning prop or highway traffic had the fence not been there.

[airtwardo 6]

In 26 years of being on DZs pretty much full time, I've only ever seen 1 ground deployed reserve by a jumper being dragged in high winds, and in that case the reserve DID inflate and dragged the jumper all the way across the airport into a fence seperating the airport from a highway. Just as easily could've dragged jumper into a spinning prop or highway traffic had the fence not been there.

[billvon 2,379]

>Just curious where this figure of 99/100 came from.

Teaching for 15 years. I've seen students, tandems and experienced jumpers cut away, some with the RSL, some without. None of them, RSL or not, ever deployed the reserve. Two closest calls were:

1) guy who didn't realize what had happened, so he started walking back dragging the freebag behind him. We stopped him before he got the canopy out of the bag.

2) woman who got lifted off the ground by wind. She cut away after the second bounce. She landed on her butt, reserve fell out and the RPC started to dance around - but again, no deployment. The RPC could not drag the reserve across the ground.

That being said, I've heard a few credible stories of where an RSL did result in an actual reserve deployment due to cutaway on the ground - hence the 99/100 number. (Might be 96/100 or 97/100.)

[psychoswooper 2]

Bagged square

[psychoswooper 2]

Teaching for 15 years. I've seen students, tandems and experienced jumpers cut away, some with the RSL, some without. None of them, RSL or not, ever deployed the reserve.

I think it goes without saying that the cut-a-ways without RSLs, of course would not deploy the reserve unless they were some kind of SOS system.

[JuiceBanger1 0]

I saw a video on youtube where a guy got hungup on a cessna, the instructor was off course shouting, do not pull reserve, of course the guy did pull, without unhooking the rsl, and his reserve just missed the planes tail!

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

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I saw a video on youtube where a guy got hungup on a cessna, the instructor was off course shouting, do not pull reserve, of course the guy did pull, without unhooking the rsl, and his reserve just missed the planes tail!

That had nothing to do with the RSL. If it's the one I'm thinking of (Was the instructor screaming "Where's the hook knife?") it was a static line hang up.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo