weight rating 26' security lopo

[nitrochute 2]

hypothetical question here. anyone know the weight rating of a block constructed security 26 foot lo po reserve?i realize they were built before pia et al started the max weight ratings.i also realize thet were tso'd in the low speed catagory(3000lb shock load)

[mjosparky 3]

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hypothetical question here. anyone know the weight rating of a block constructed security 26 foot lo po reserve?i realize they were built before pia et al started the max weight ratings.i also realize thet were tso'd in the low speed catagory(3000lb shock load)

As you know, there was no set weight, just weight and speed to equal 3000 lb. I would guess what ever you think you body can take. At 200 lb. I think they have a decent rate of around 25 FPC. Ouch.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[councilman24 36]

254lbs, low speed catagory. (TSO C23b I assume.) But, I wouldn't necessarily expect to walk away from one at 254lbs. I landed a crossbow reserve, essentially a security 26 lopo (NOT high performance round like crossbow main) twice when I weighed about 160 lbs. (suspended after cutaway about 175) with out any problem. Don't think I stood up. I've had it rigged as a main for several years and a few folks have jumped it. But the 130 to 150 lb light weights crashed pretty good, but didn't get hurt. Both NAS-804 and AS8015 were 21 fps decent with 170lb dummy. Hmmm I'd remembered the 21 fps but forgot that it was at 170lb not 254lb.

This summer I jumped a National Phantom 28' as a main at a loading of about 235lbs. Landed in the peas or I would have been brused but several hundred round PLFs in the old days would have let me walk away. These are NOT lopo fabric (hmmm don't remember but 40 to 60 cfm I think), but F111 that is 0-3 cfm. Military T-10 fabric is 80 to 120 cfm.

Note that this reply is based on the expectation that your thinking of jumping it. If your 160lbs or less go for it. Upto 180 if you've got LOTS of round landings with PLF's. Over that, find my Phantom.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

254lbs, low speed catagory. (TSO C23b I assume.) But, I wouldn't necessarily expect to walk away from one at 254lbs. I landed a crossbow reserve, essentially a security 26 lopo (NOT high performance round like crossbow main) twice when I weighed about 160 lbs. (suspended after cutaway about 175) with out any problem. Don't think I stood up. I've had it rigged as a main for several years and a few folks have jumped it. But the 130 to 150 lb light weights crashed pretty good, but didn't get hurt. Both NAS-804 and AS8015 were 21 fps decent with 170lb dummy. Hmmm I'd remembered the 21 fps but forgot that it was at 170lb not 254lb.

This summer I jumped a National Phantom 28' as a main at a loading of about 235lbs. Landed in the peas or I would have been brused but several hundred round PLFs in the old days would have let me walk away. These are NOT lopo fabric (hmmm don't remember but 40 to 60 cfm I think), but F111 that is 0-3 cfm. Military T-10 fabric is 80 to 120 cfm.

Note that this reply is based on the expectation that your thinking of jumping it. If your 160lbs or less go for it. Upto 180 if you've got LOTS of round landings with PLF's. Over that, find my Phantom.

Terry,
I think you are mixing TSO-C23b with TSO-C23c.
TSO-C23b had 2 categories, Standard and Low speed. They were "dummy weight and indicated air speed to give the equivalent of 3000/5000 lbs. shock load"
TSO-C23c had 3 categories: A - 198 lb./130 knots
B - 254 lb./150 knots
C- 254 lb./ 175 knots

TSO-C23b superseded NAS-804 by calling for a descent rate of not more than 25 fps as opposed to 21 fps. (PPM Vol. I, page 9) But you are right, it is with just 170 lbs. A canopy with a descent rate of 21 fps at 254 lb. would be a bitch to carry to the plane.

A canopy old enough to have been manufactured under TSO-C23b would probably have a cfm of over 100.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[GroundZero 0]

What?!?!?

Quote

A canopy old enough to have been manufactured under TSO-C23b would probably have a cfm of over 100.

Sparky

I don't think so....


(Sangiro, we need a separate "riggers Forum" where people don't guess about things like this.

Many current canopies manufactured under that spec are built of 0-3 cfm and even zero p fabric...

Chris


(but I'm not a rigger, so I don't want to speculate...)

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

What?!?!?

Quote

A canopy old enough to have been manufactured under TSO-C23b would probably have a cfm of over 100.

Sparky

I don't think so....


(Sangiro, we need a separate "riggers Forum" where people don't guess about things like this.

Many current canopies manufactured under that spec are built of 0-3 cfm and even zero p fabric...

Chris


(but I'm not a rigger, so I don't want to speculate...)

There are no canopies being manufactured under TSO-C23b and there hasn't been since April 25, 1984. I am not guessing about this, it is fact. And, yes, you were speculating.
Do you have anything else helpful to add?

Rigger examiner for lap, I don't think so.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[councilman24 36]

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There are no canopies being manufactured under TSO-C23b and there hasn't been since April 25, 1984. I am not guessing about this, it is fact. And, yes, you were speculating.
Do you have anything else helpful to add?

Rigger examiner for lap, I don't think so.

Until 1992 Strong's canopies were still TSO-C23b. http://www.strongparachutes.com/PDF_Files/PCmanRevH.pdf The Vector still is. Just two examples. The change in TSO didn't make obsolete the approval of previously approved items. And the Vector is still made under the Wonderhog TSO approval.

Strong's LoPo was made under TSO C23b with LoPo fabric around 50 cfm (depending on reference).

Your right I think I did mix things up but in Poynter's original manual it was still 21 fps in AS 8015. Mis print?

There is a parachute out now that probably does 21 fps with 254lbs. The preserve V is rated to 275 lbs and 150 knots. http://www.freeflightent.com/PV_Pack_Inst_V.pdf

I have two customers with these. Check out the manual for a complicated system.

I'd like to have a riggers only forum but even the FAA doesn't agree what their regs mean, so we all have to "guess".

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mjosparky 3]

I agree, you are right Terry. But Groundzero doesn't know that.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

Terry,
I just thought of something. Weren't all GQ Security canopies older then 15 years classified as "non air worthy" when GQ merged with Irvin?
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[councilman24 36]

Apparently in their manual, which I haven't seen in person, all Security pilot equipment had a service life of 15 years. I understand this to mean both the canopy and the harness. So those pilot rigs retrofitted with National or other canopies should be "dead" now. The folks who attend PIA have just "rediscovered" that fact in the last year. I haven't heard it had anything to do with the merger.

Him, actually I do have the manuals at home. I just have looked at them recently. I'll look later. I don't have a manual for and know if this applied to security canopies sold either in sport rigs or separately. But they've reached my personal comfort limit.

I half assumed the above question was someone wanting to use it as a main.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

To be specific, it is the British parent company: GQ Defense that asaid (in their manuals) that GQ equipment more than 15 years old is no longer considered airworthy.

Given that the American branch closed 20 years ago, that leaves North American riggers in a grey area.

What are North American riggers supposed to do when a customer brings us a 20-year-old Security PEP?