quade 3
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kallend 1,623
quade***The pilots are then without navaids and in the dark.
Magnetic compass. Yes, they still exist and for a reason.
So do battery powered portable GPS's with aviation databases. There's ZERO reason for any plane to be without navigation capability just because it suffers an electrical failure. Even in my Mooney I carry 2 independent, redundant back ups in case the panel mounted NAV equipment goes out.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
quade 3
kallend******The pilots are then without navaids and in the dark.
Magnetic compass. Yes, they still exist and for a reason.
So do battery powered portable GPS's with aviation databases. There's ZERO reason for any plane to be without navigation capability just because it suffers an electrical failure. Even in my Mooney I carry 2 independent, redundant back ups in case the panel mounted NAV equipment goes out.
Yes, well, I once had a total electrical failure, night, IFR, inside the LAX Class B. That was awesome.
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The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
rwieder 0
My thoughts are along the lines f/ "Stolen" to "High Jacked" Where is it? I think we'll know within 48 hrs. As soon as one of the senior officials grows a set of stones big enough to tell the public. I've been working in Sumatra or Sumetera which ever you prefer and it's a doggone scary place. I fly GBIA T/ Indonesia, (Jakarta) then to Sumatra. I was getting pretty overwhelmed with the relations between Singapore and Sumatra b/c of the forest fire smoke drifting into down town Singapore. Now this? I can also add I'm simply astonished how the "Stolen Pass Ports" passed through customs. But having said that, I'm sure "whitey" gets treated like dogs, while every one else who lives in the area gets pass after pass. I've been dragged into the "Little Room" where they pull you, your bags and everything else you came with and have endured 2-3 hour long questioning and harassing sessions. I believe they knew what my lay over time was and just decided to mess w/ an american. It's not the same for us. When I say us, I guess I should specify Petroleum based clientele. These are just my thoughts, not cleared statements from an official.
Best-
Richard
Best-
Richard
"Hell, maybe they dropped it to the deck and flew somewhere else. Not likely, but not outside of the realm of possibility either."
I thought about that possibility from the beginning.
That idea is floating around now.
What say you NSA?
Don't go away mad....just go away!
I thought about that possibility from the beginning.
That idea is floating around now.
What say you NSA?
Don't go away mad....just go away!
turtlespeed 212
maxmadmax
"Hell, maybe they dropped it to the deck and flew somewhere else. Not likely, but not outside of the realm of possibility either."
I thought about that possibility from the beginning.
That idea is floating around now.
What say you NSA?
Satellite footage should show, right?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
rwieder 0
QuoteSatellite footage should show, right?
That was one of my first thoughts. I don't think whatever happened is being reported, however I am under the impression somebody knows what happened. Possibly keeping it under wraps for their own agendas. just thinking out loud.
Best-
Richard
lawrocketI don't know, Paul.
What I do know is that nothing can be ruled out. Who would have thought that Air France 447 crashed because the copilot stalled it 40k feet to the ocean? But that's exactly what happened.
What I am thinking is why a plane lost commo and cannot be found where it was last noticed. Meaning that the plane flew somewhere.
This is a head scratcher and it seems like any normal explanations are lacking.
Not sure about that 777 but on some the Air France airbus thing can't happen...IF the computer is working the Boeing won't 'let' you stall. IIRC - you get the audio yelling at ya & the stick shaker going - then it just takes over.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
1969912 0
Interesting stuff. Not sure if it's the same model, etc. NPRM? AD?
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/11/18/2013-27343/special-conditions-boeing-model-777-200--300-and--300er-series-airplanes-aircraft-electronic-system
"The Special Conditions Back to Top
Accordingly, pursuant to the authority delegated to me by the Administrator, the following special conditions are issued as part of the type certification basis for Boeing Model 777-200, -300, -300ER series airplanes modified by The Boeing Company.
1. The applicant must ensure that the design provides isolation from, or airplane electronic system security protection against, access by unauthorized sources internal to the airplane. The design must prevent inadvertent and malicious changes to, and all adverse impacts upon, airplane equipment, systems, networks, or other assets required for safe flight and operations.Show citation box
2. The applicant must establish appropriate procedures to enable the operator to ensure that continued airworthiness of the aircraft is maintained, including all post STC modifications that may have an impact on the approved electronic system security safeguards."
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/11/18/2013-27343/special-conditions-boeing-model-777-200--300-and--300er-series-airplanes-aircraft-electronic-system
"The Special Conditions Back to Top
Accordingly, pursuant to the authority delegated to me by the Administrator, the following special conditions are issued as part of the type certification basis for Boeing Model 777-200, -300, -300ER series airplanes modified by The Boeing Company.
1. The applicant must ensure that the design provides isolation from, or airplane electronic system security protection against, access by unauthorized sources internal to the airplane. The design must prevent inadvertent and malicious changes to, and all adverse impacts upon, airplane equipment, systems, networks, or other assets required for safe flight and operations.Show citation box
2. The applicant must establish appropriate procedures to enable the operator to ensure that continued airworthiness of the aircraft is maintained, including all post STC modifications that may have an impact on the approved electronic system security safeguards."
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
So are you suggesting a hacker could have taken it down? A "Stuxjet," so to speak?
My wife is hotter than your wife.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
quade 3
Right. This essentially either puts a firewall or air gap between passenger entertainment and flight control.
If it was only a firewall, was breached, and flight control taken over by crypto-terrorists, this is still no different than busting down the door and hijacking the plane normally. With the exception that the crew still has one other back-up; they could shut down power to the system entirely and fly the airplane entirely without regard to the electrical system. The 777 has a "direct mode" with flight control cables able to maintain flight control.
In other words . . . interesting find . . . nice bit of wild speculation on somebody's part . . . but highly unlikely and especially if the turn back data on the radar is correct.
If it was only a firewall, was breached, and flight control taken over by crypto-terrorists, this is still no different than busting down the door and hijacking the plane normally. With the exception that the crew still has one other back-up; they could shut down power to the system entirely and fly the airplane entirely without regard to the electrical system. The 777 has a "direct mode" with flight control cables able to maintain flight control.
In other words . . . interesting find . . . nice bit of wild speculation on somebody's part . . . but highly unlikely and especially if the turn back data on the radar is correct.
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The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
quade 3
RobertMBlevinsI am going to check more on this allegation.
If that is the case, then it should be trivial to triangulate the cell towers.
Not ruling out anything, but if this were the case, it should have only taken a few hours to know the truth of it and I heard that rumor far longer ago than that. My guess as of now is that it might have been wishful thinking, people who had their phones call forwarded, or something else explainable other than the survivor's phones actually ringing.
Here's one story with a possible explanation.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/11/288998085/ringing-phones-do-not-mean-malaysian-passengers-are-ok
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The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
1969912 0
lawrocketSo are you suggesting a hacker could have taken it down? A "Stuxjet," so to speak?
I just quoted something from the Federal Register. That's it.
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
quade 3
I may have edited the above while you were busy composing based on the previous. I posted a link which attempts to explain how there is not a standard way for cell phones to ring and what the ramifications of that means with regards to this.
Check out the link.
Check out the link.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
jclalor 12
RobertMBlevinsI did look back on this thread a bit...maybe this has been mentioned...but Seattle TV news said today (unconfirmed) that some of the relatives of the missing passengers had been calling their loved ones' cell phones and getting constant rings. But no pick up, of course.
In other words, if the phones had no service or the phones were destroyed, they should go straight to voice mail instead. I am going to check more on this allegation.
On the point of a possible crash into the ocean, there WILL be debris, especially in a modern jetliner. A lot of items in a modern jetliner simply do not sink.
One of the worse things about not finding the wreckage will be the countless conspiracy theorist, blaming everything from extraterrestrials
To President Obama.
rwieder 0
QuoteOr perhaps it was a party gone wrong.
While this article is thought provoking, I think, yes that could be. Nothing should be ruled out in the early investigation phase in the search for the MIA air craft. I think the jet is alive and well...some where. I could be full of it and prolly am, but that's one theory I came up with b/c we have such good spy satellites. WHY didn't the PIC not follow protocol and maintain a "sterile cock pit?? It's my understanding that 2 young ladies had visited the co-pilot some time ago, what's that about?? The question of the new century so far. Heck the staff at the white house watched the raid in afghanistan when seal team 6 made a successful entry into OBL's quarters, acquired their target, then eliminated the threat. How is it possible they don't know where this jet is???
QuoteBut if the jet crashed into the ocean somewhere...why hasn't anyone seen a single piece of debris yet? A Boeing 777 cannot simply vanish over water without some evidence. If it crashed, there would be debris. A lot of stuff on a modern jetliner will NOT sink these days.
You got that right. We're talking luggage, life rafts, life preservers, seat cushions (etc...)
QuoteNext thing you know it will be twenty years later and these guys will come walking out of an alien spaceship like all those people did in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Maybe their cell phones will still work and they can Phone Home ET if the aliens were nice enough to provide charging.
No, I don't think ET, or any of the 249 souls on board will be phoning or trying to call home anytime soon. The only problem I have with my own theory is b/c I think if the plane was taken or stolen, is no one did "phone home" b/f what ever happened, happened.
QuoteIt's rapidly approaching the Ridiculous Point. Either they crashed on land or water. There has been zero sign so far of either.
Yes, my thoughts as well. It's the "zero" sign of either that is really mind boggling. Why no debris washed up on the beach fronts as of yet?? I was also tossing around the idea that NK could have had a hand in it one way or another. (OT a bit, sorry) The young gestapo leader could have certainly boosted his young ego as well as being endowed with a larger male organ by his underlings, if he did have a hand in it. Ol' Pooty-Poot ("Mr. Iron Curtain") comes to mind as well. How ever, I don't think we'll ever know the complete truth about any of this particular event anytime soon. Like, I'll be dead and gone (Or NOT!) when and if they do release the fate of Flight # MH370. Misty water cooler memories of the The SS Edmund Fitzgerald.
No telling why the jet is MIA like that, but it is. It's disturbing to say the least. Or so that's what we're being told for the moment. This is a baffling situation. What w/ all of the military grade spy equipment we have I'm just about convinced the jet was acquired for some one else's agenda. Again, I'm prolly full of it.
Best-
Richard
Send Dennis Rodman. He'll find them.
Always be kinder than you feel.
quade 3
RobertMBlevinsBut if the jet crashed into the ocean somewhere...why hasn't anyone seen a single piece of debris yet?
That is an assumption not in evidence. People assume it crashed into the ocean. It could have just as easily crashed into jungle or into the side of a mountain or landed somewhere. At this point it's too early to tell. It's also a very big world and it's entirely possible the search team isn't looking in remotely the right spot.
We see the same nonsense over and over again about these wild assumptions.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
quade***But if the jet crashed into the ocean somewhere...why hasn't anyone seen a single piece of debris yet?
That is an assumption not in evidence. People assume it crashed into the ocean. It could have just as easily crashed into jungle or into the side of a mountain or landed somewhere. At this point it's too early to tell. It's also a very big world and it's entirely possible the search team isn't looking in remotely the right spot.
We see the same nonsense over and over again about these wild assumptions.
I'm sure I could Google this question but I was wondering... what is the distance the emergency beacons can be detected? I think I read the length of time is approximately 30 days but I don't remember reading about a detection range.
Always be kinder than you feel.
kallend 1,623
lawrocketSo are you suggesting a hacker could have taken it down? A "Stuxjet," so to speak?
Or just a passenger playing Angry Birds without putting his cell phone in "airplane" mode.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend***So are you suggesting a hacker could have taken it down? A "Stuxjet," so to speak?
Or just a passenger playing Angry Birds without putting his cell phone in "airplane" mode.
I notice more people playing Candy Crush.
Always be kinder than you feel.
From Malaysian's website:
Quote
Communications and connectivity
Your in-flight entertainment controller doubles as an air-to-ground phone. Make calls or send text messages to anywhere using your credit card. You can also call your friends on the same flight.
No in-flight Internet? I'm surprised to not see that offered. Anyway, calling your friends on the same flight makes it easier to communicate from your seat without looking sneaky(ier). Although, I'd presume if your working in concert with another passenger(s) on board the same flight you'd have your plan worked out prior to boarding.
Just thinking aloud...
Always be kinder than you feel.
Remster 24
Quotelost commo
We do not know if it lost communication. All we know is that the pilots did not communicate.
Remster
Magnetic compass. Yes, they still exist and for a reason.
As for why turn back rather than press on during a total electrical failure, there might be several reasons, but chief among them would be crossing into China's airspace without checking in over the, now, inop radio. China (and some other countries we know) might have a tendency to shoot down an unresponsive airliner.
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
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