Question for rigger/TSO guru types

[jjiimmyyt 0]

Can a US qualified Rigger repack a reserve for non TSO'd container (which is very very very similar to a Vector) for a foreign visiting jumper at a USPA DZ which has a TSO waiver? Even if the visiting jumper is a USPA memberr?

And yes, this actually came up.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[PhreeZone 14]

Are they planning on jumping it on US soil?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jjiimmyyt 0]

Yup.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[PhreeZone 14]

Then NO!!

It has to be airworthy for a sign off and Non-TSO'd gear can not be signed off.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jjiimmyyt 0]

Even if the DZ has a TSO waiver? How do new containers get tested then?

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[markbaur 0]

I don't read FAR 105.49 that way. The specific provision is in (a)(4):
"All foreign non-approved parachutes deployed by a foreign parachutist ... shall be packed as follows--
(i) The main parachute ...
(ii) The reserve parachute must be packed in accordance with the foreign parachutist's civil aviation authority requirements, by a certificated parachute rigger, or any other person acceptable to the Administrator."

The term "certificated parachute rigger" is not defined, but as used elsewhere in Part 105, it means "FAA-certificated parachute rigger." I'll be happy to pack that rig, provided I have understandable packing instructions and have some way of verifying that it's an acceptable rig in the foreign country. I'll even put my seal on it, unless sealing the rig is unacceptable to the foreign civil aviation authority.

Mark

[atsaubrey 0]

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Then NO!!

It has to be airworthy for a sign off and Non-TSO'd gear can not be signed off.

Interesting answer. How can people jump military gear? Mil gear doesn't have a TSO.

"GOT LEAD?"

[mjosparky 3]

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Then NO!!

It has to be airworthy for a sign off and Non-TSO'd gear can not be signed off.

Interesting answer. How can people jump military gear? Mil gear doesn't have a TSO.

Remember, we went through this before.

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§ 105.3____ Definitions.
For the purposes of this part—
Approved parachute means a parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a Technical Standard Order (C–23 series), or a personnel-carrying U.S. military parachute (other than a high altitude, high speed, or ejection type) identified by a Navy Air Facility, an Army Air Field, and Air Force-Navy drawing number, an Army Air Field order number, or any other military designation or specification number.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

It depends on where all of this gear was made and weather it is approved by the country where the foreign jumper is from.

I have never heard of DZ having a TSO waiver. Could you explain?
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jjiimmyyt 0]

I believe,and was told by people that work there (not directly employed by the DZ, but through a gear shop which does the gear checks ) that there is a little DZ near Riverside, CA which has a TSO waiver.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[mjosparky 3]

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I believe,and was told by people that work there (not directly employed by the DZ, but through a gear shop which does the gear checks ) that there is a little DZ near Riverside, CA which has a TSO waiver.

Once again, I have never heard of a TSO waiver. TSO's have nothing to do with USPA or drop zones, they are issued by the FAA. Are you thinking of a waiver to BSR's?
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 558]

Perris Valley used to have a waiver (not quite a TSO waiver) that allowed foreigners to jump non-TSOed parachutes provided they were approved in their homeland. Recently the FAA extended that waiver to all American DZs.
As for the finer legal points of FAA riggers packing and signing (non-TSOed) foreign-made gear, the simple answer is to attend a CSPA Rigger A course, then you can repack and sign any parachute, made anywhere, as long as it was approved in its country of origin.

[mjosparky 3]

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Perris Valley used to have a waiver (not quite a TSO waiver) that allowed foreigners to jump non-TSOed parachutes provided they were approved in their homeland. Recently the FAA extended that waiver to all American DZs.
As for the finer legal points of FAA riggers packing and signing (non-TSOed) foreign-made gear, the simple answer is to attend a CSPA Rigger A course, then you can repack and sign any parachute, made anywhere, as long as it was approved in its country of origin.

Rob,
It is not a waiver, it is written in to Part 105 as of 2001. What they may have had in years past was a 7711-1 for some of Part 105.
Sparky

§ 105.49 Foreign parachutists and equipment.(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from that aircraft with an unapproved foreign parachute system unless—(1) The parachute system is worn by a foreign parachutist who is the owner of that system.(2) The parachute system is of a single-harness dual parachute type.(3) The parachute system meets the civil aviation authority requirements of the foreign parachutist's country.(4) All foreign non-approved parachutes deployed by a foreign parachutist during a parachute operation conducted under this section shall be packed as follows—(i) The main parachute must be packed by the foreign parachutist making the next parachute jump with that parachute, a certificated parachute rigger, or any other person acceptable to the Administrator
ii) The reserve parachute must be packed in accordance with the foreign parachutist's civil aviation authority requirements, by a certificated parachute rigger, or any other person acceptable to the Administrator

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[councilman24 36]

The kicker in the new 105 is knowing "foreign parachutist's civil aviation authority requirements." It's not often easy to find the foreign requirements.

Terry

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mjosparky 3]

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The kicker in the new 105 is knowing "foreign parachutist's civil aviation authority requirements." It's not often easy to find the foreign requirements.

Terry

This is a very good point.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[PhreeZone 14]

>This is a very good point.

I imagine its really hard with former eastern bloc countries that don't even exist anymore.

Here is a side tangent question. Does 105 apply in the case of the country of manufactor or the country of the parachutist? Ie if its a jumper from Iraq jumping a non TSO'd Russian rig which counties rules apply if any?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[councilman24 36]

My half asleep answer would be that it has to be legal in the jumpers country, then that countries rules apply. For those without any rules? Comes down to whether you want to put you name on it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mjosparky 3]

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Part 105.(a).(3) The parachute system meets the civil aviation authority requirements of the foreign parachutist's country

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[PhreeZone 14]

Right.. but what about in the case of no requirements (ie Iraq, China)?

Just since someone could sew together a Vector clone in their garage, but their country has no aviation authority... does that mean its up to the rigger?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[markbaur 0]

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Just since someone could sew together a Vector clone in their garage, but their country has no aviation authority... does that mean its up to the rigger?

Yup. It's always up to the rigger, and you can always say no.

Mark

[jjiimmyyt 0]

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Just since someone could sew together a Vector clone in their garage, but their country has no aviation authority... does that mean its up to the rigger?

Yup. It's always up to the rigger, and you can always say no.

Mark

My rig was a Xerox stroke Vector copy called an Aircare, made bt a BPA rigger so he could pass his riggers test. At Perris 1 rigger said they wont do a repack, fair enough: met another rigger. Explained to him that (at the time politics has made us change to BPA since) we were from a USPA DZ in the UK, the rig was acceptable to be jumped under BPA rules, under such circumstances he was happy to repack and put his seal on. He also fitted slider bumpers and only charged for the parts.

If I ever need a repack and I'm at Perris I know who I'd go to. The whole TSO thing will not be an issue as i'm looking at a Wings now, fancy doing a bit of freeflying now.

Edit for somehow changing my keyboard to french whilst typing.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[mjosparky 3]

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Right.. but what about in the case of no requirements (ie Iraq, China)?

Just since someone could sew together a Vector clone in their garage, but their country has no aviation authority... does that mean its up to the rigger?

No, if his country does not have an aviation authority, it does not meet the requirements of Part 105.43.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ZigZag 0]

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