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loveslavender

unnecessary roughness by JM

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^Well I am doing everything and continue to plan on doing what my instructors say and I know to ask questions and I am very fortunate to have the experience to learn to skydive where ever I am at, so those kind of statements aren't helpful. They don't really tell me anything. I can't jump more right now. I am on levels. I can only jump as I progress.

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focus on the jumping, not the bitching. there is no place on the earth that you can go and not run into an asshole, dz's included.

someone was an asshole. deal with it and get over it. i feel that was a helpful post.

jump more bitch less

blue skie
"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

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^Well I am doing everything and continue to plan on doing what my instructors say and I know to ask questions and I am very fortunate to have the experience to learn to skydive where ever I am at, so those kind of statements aren't helpful. They don't really tell me anything. I can't jump more right now. I am on levels. I can only jump as I progress.



Don't sweat it. Online forums have a minimum catty rating of 8 ;)

People only consider it "whining" when they aren't the one talking. Of course you should get it out, vent, look at it again, feel, think, and make plans. If you can't process your experiences, they aren't worth anything.

If they really didn't want to hear it, they wouldn't be reading it, now would they? ;)

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Well I appreciate the feedback and I know there r a lot of ppl who r jerks just like in life...I just ask to be on the same page with my 2 JM's b4 I am about to risk my life. Im not going to do just tandem either. And I never expected everyone to like me . Its also a good lesson to notice how some women become hotshots and forget they had 2 start somewhere. Im not gonna do that.

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Skydiving is a service you are paying for just like any other. Would you let a raft guide push you onto the other bench of a boat or let carnys manhandle you into your seat on the ferris wheel? Unless you are pulling someone out of harms way there is no excuse to manhandle anyone, AFFI or not. Tell him to fuck off and find another instructor that knows better and talk to the DZO. DZ's have a monopoly in a lot of areas and think they can do whatever they want, don't make that worse by putting up with it.

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"you may cry about how rude I have been to you"
^ to the poster Ron,

Nothing at all you have said has made me feel like you are rude or like crying. I think you are just not used to people talking about stuff and maybe expect all students to take whatever.. but if you really want to make me "feel" like crying, before our exit procedure begins, start shoving me around and yes then you will succeed making me "feel like crying" because I would be so mad at you unless, of course, I did something you already told me not to do OR you told me what to do and I did something totally different. Then I would be mad at myself and not you.

That's silly to think I would cry because you "think" you are being rude.

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the instructor should always be professional, if you feel you were treated anything less find a new instructor. being relaxed is key, clear minded clear thoughts. you need to be relaxed for when you have a "real" problem that needs correcting immediatly. drama has no place in this sport, especially for someone just learning. its your life save yourself! there are so many I's in this industry you should have no problem finding someone that you click with. and just because you failed a level does not mean you didnt learn anything from it. come down to FL we will treat you right!
Flock University FWC / ZFlock
B.A.S.E. 1580
Aussie BASE 121

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based on what you have stated - it seems that this could be simple miscommunication

you and the instructors should be reviewing the exit procedure on each jump, it seems that this guy wanted something different than what you had done in the past

it's possible that what you did before was "unacceptable" to this guy but tolerated by previous slack instructors, maybe the guy was right, who knows

why not just ask the guy, just say:

Hi, remember we jumped xx weeks ago? I'm confused about what happened prior to exit. Can you help me understand what I did wrong and what was expected?
Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

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In another lifetime maybe... I understand what you are saying but it made me so mad I really should have stopped the jump..but most people there would say "take a wild card, it's good for you" Look, he is bitter and this is the way it goes with him.. he talks to you. He asks the questions. I even took my rig off when I got to the ground and was going to walk away I was so pissed, but he started in on me on the radio so I put it back on. Which actually you have to admit is kind of funny to other people seeing it. They had no idea.. why did she do that?? lol who knew? no one because I didn't say anything.. but I shouldn't have jumped that upset. I know better now. And I did and failed to do some major important things on that jump that I already had drilled into me that were not so funny. And I take responsibility for them but I know I was mad and exhilarated and all kinds of things at the same time but pissed as hell right before getting into the exit and when I got to the ground. And still am today as I stated in my OP. Not so much now as I was. And I have a jump scheduled already at a DZ where I had really good vibes from the guy and wanted to learn from him and it was a gut feeling or a chemistry thing and instead I let a friend talk me into a dif. DZ. So alls well I will continue with training.

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If there are only two DZ's in the area, I *promise* you'll have problems of some sort at the second DZ, too. Your approach seems to suggest you want it all to be perfect. Training doesn't work that way. Daily...I see students respond well to one instructor that might not have responded well to another. It's a "chemistry" thing sometimes.



I did have that chemistry thing with a TM (and he is an instructor too), not my first Tandem, but I'm talking about the DZ I wanted and that I am going to now and he had me do prct's, deploy, turns and flares etc. just a tandem and I spent the whole day out there, and I "wanted" to go back and learn from him but I let a friend talk me into this other DZ which I did have a lot of fun all in all but could have killed myself on that jump with some things I did and didn't do and I was really mad and I still feel I had every right to be. But I know this gut feeling chemistry thing ppl are talking about and I have it with this other JM already at the other DZ that is closer and I'm glad I can progress from where I am at and not have to start all over again. And it's not a female male thing.. it's just that I want to learn from him. And no, not every DZ does what occurred with me.. if they do.. they are jacking up their students safety. And I know they don't do that or want that. Well I hope not. I know dudes that more afraid than I am they won't admit it but they shake like crazy and they are new and no that shouldn't happen to them either.

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It's too bad, that you had a difficult and upsetting time with your instructor's teaching methods. (We've all been there in some way or another.) While I'm not making excuses for him, there may have been a good reason for the roughness. People can come across as being very rough with one another, especially when we're on the plane, and someone's life may be in danger.

Maybe your instructor or someone behind you was shoving your pilot chute back into place or checking your pin, etc. You would be unaware of some of this as a newbie student. He may have quickly handled things without alarming you. The last thing you need to do is be concerned about your gear at the door.

My advice is to relax and take everything that may initially appear rude or rough with a grain of salt. Try to learn, try to ask many questions and try not to take everything personally. Remember that it's not just about you...the instructor's life, as well as everyone's on the plane, are also in danger. The bottom line is that the instructors are there to HELP you. What he did may have been done for that reason.

One more scenario is that maybe he was trying to get you to focus, or maybe he was trying to get your attention. Planes are loud, and he may have been trying to use non-verbal communication. This is used ALL of the time, during skydiving. It may have crossed the line in your mind, but he may have been trying to make a point about safety or focus or something similar. In any case, he wanted something from you that was not happening. Obviously, he thought that what he did may have helped you more than hurt you, even if you disagree.

It can't hurt to question your instructor directly about what happened in a non-confrontational manner. Maybe you can ask him to explain what he was trying to do, and why he became physical. You could give your point-of-view as to why you felt that it crossed the line. Nothing can be gained from not knowing why something like this happened, if it upset you. As someone else mentioned, this is most likely a case of miscommunication.

All of us skydivers have had people do rude and rough things to us at some point, even as students, but we are in a life and death situation, when we jump out of that plane. If a skydiver cannot grown thick skin and learn to grow from past experiences or mistakes, then THAT in itself will be one of that person's biggest weaknesses. Don't let that happen to you. We need all the women skydivers that we can get. Welcome to the sky, and good luck, future skysister! :)

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But I know this gut feeling chemistry thing ppl are talking about and I have it with this other JM already at the other DZ that is closer




[Cue Plot re-cycle for the 19,543rd time].....fade from black......"As the Prop Turns" begins in 5...4...3....2.............
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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you edited your post before I completed my reply :)
That said, if you're going to be tweaked at one DZ because of the actions of one instructor, I *promise* you'll find someone at the other DZ to be tweaked at. It's a given. Skydiving is like obtuse social scenarios except that everyone is crammed into a smaller environment. Ain't no way between the tweekers, lawyers, unemployed bums, doctors, Hells Angels, CEO's, and normal people, that you'll love and never be annoyed by someone somewhere. Honest.
When you have 50 jumps, I also promise you'll come back and look at this thread and think "WTF was I thinkin'?"
And you won't be the first nor last.
Give both DZ's the benefit of your presence. Eventually, you'll probably come to love (or hate) them both.
Skydiving is a small world that only seems large when you're just getting into it. Eventually you'll realize it's a closely knit group of incestuous adrenaline freeks, and we all have off-days.:D

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I have been very fortunate to work with many extremely talented and passionate Instructors through the years but there have been a few others that (although managing the safety aspect of the jump) were doing a disservice to the "teaching" aspect of AFF. I believe this is primarily why we are there...to "teach" students to one day be fully responsible for their own safety. Over controlling the student is a detriment to the learning process for many reasons, only one of which is because it causes student/instructor alienation.

As I mentioned in a previous post...congratulations for taking control of your own student progession.

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Until you ask him why he did what he did, then you didn't learn shit. ASK HIM!! Maybe there is something to learn...imagine that.

Something tells me if he has been an instructor for that long at the DZ, chances are he is a good instructor. He might not have babied and cuddled you before the jump, but that does not make him bad.

Please for heavens sake, ask why it happened, ask questions, its what you do as a student.
Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

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What I get out of her comments is that she made movements in the AC during the time to be ready to move to the door and was swapping seats, all of this was on her own accord and not at the direction of the inside instructor. (take all your instructions from, Bob)

By deciding on her own (based on earlier jumps) to take action and move around, it would be the job and duty of the controlling instructor to correct the action.... most inside I's have a grip on the leg strap and it would be very easy to "man handle" one back in place, where they should be!

Anyone who has been there would be thinking WTF if your student started acting all fucked up and trying to swap seats while moving towards the door in exit order. Many people wear full face's and most students don't clear their ears @ alti. make the combo a set up for not hearing, meaning hand signals and in some cases man handling a needed tool to control your student, after all that is your job and why we get paid the big bucks!

It's clear by the OP's posts she was never commanded to make those movements at that time. Despite getting good feed back and real life "could of been this reasons" she keeps on bitching about it. And instead of seeking the reasons she is going to go to another dz for the better vibe and the cute guy she likes better, that is all fine and dandy, but after reading all her post, she sounds like a problem child with thin skin who likes to whine a lot, you know the kind of student we end up giving the directions to the other dz down the road so they can deal with them.

Just saying.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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