unnecessary roughness by JM

[loveslavender 0]

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You jumped out of an airplane and survived, but you're worried that someone shoved you?! I think you need to get your priorities straight missy.

I'm not going back over the events nor am I going back over why I feel I can't ASK him.. nor am I going to explain why I could have easily NOT survived. Protocol and communication are key to me right now and hopefully throughout the sport. I am the student here right now. I've "at least" had enough training to know we don't just go up and jump out of an airplane and survive.. there is more to it.. alot more.

[popsjumper 2]

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It's clear by the OP's posts she was never commanded to make those movements at that time. Despite getting good feed back and real life "could of been this reasons" she keeps on bitching about it. And instead of seeking the reasons she is going to go to another dz for the better vibe and the cute guy she likes better, that is all fine and dandy, but after reading all her post, she sounds like a problem child with thin skin who likes to whine a lot, you know the kind of student we end up giving the directions to the other dz down the road so they can deal with them.

Just saying.

My thoughts precisely.

I swear to God...the first time I saw the username, I read LovesSlander. The posts seem to be focused on that.

Funny story:
My AFF, Level 1, I was out and flying and looking around at the view remembering what I had been missing all those years off when one of my I's slapped me hard on the forehead..."Wake up, Bitch!"

I wasn't seeing the 'LegsOut' from both of them.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[artard 0]

You've made no less than 15 posts in this thread complaining about your experience and yet you refuse to talk to the instructor in person about what happened. Stop being a passive aggressive whiner and deal with your issues head on.

http://www.mixcloud.com/prajna
http://vimeo.com/avidya

[loveslavender 0]

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What I get out of her comments is that she made movements in the AC during the time to be ready to move to the door and was swapping seats, all of this was on her own accord and not at the direction of the inside instructor. (take all your instructions from, Bob)

By deciding on her own (based on earlier jumps) to take action and move around, it would be the job and duty of the controlling instructor to correct the action.... most inside I's have a grip on the leg strap and it would be very easy to "man handle" one back in place, where they should be!

Anyone who has been there would be thinking WTF if your student started acting all fucked up and trying to swap seats while moving towards the door in exit order. Many people wear full face's and most students don't clear their ears @ alti. make the combo a set up for not hearing, meaning hand signals and in some cases man handling a needed tool to control your student, after all that is your job and why we get paid the big bucks!

It's clear by the OP's posts she was never commanded to make those movements at that time. Despite getting good feed back and real life "could of been this reasons" she keeps on bitching about it. And instead of seeking the reasons she is going to go to another dz for the better vibe and the cute guy she likes better, that is all fine and dandy, but after reading all her post, she sounds like a problem child with thin skin who likes to whine a lot, you know the kind of student we end up giving the directions to the other dz down the road so they can deal with them.

Just saying.

Well I just thank God you are not an instructor.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Your story illustrates the importance of a quiet skydiving skill, the ability to stay in the current moment and release what happened earlier in the jump.  To perform well on skydives I have found it necessary to stay in the PRESENT moment. I cannot let a bad exit pollute my emotions and distract me during the rest of the freefall.  I cannot let a badly executed point in the skydive distract me from the current point.  I cannot let a lousy freefall distract me from a good break-off and track. I cannot let anything distract me at pull time.  I cannot let any earlier part of the jump distract me from safe canopy flight and landing.  

This sounds trivial but it is VERY important, as skydives often have ugly moments. If we allow those to distract us from the current moment, we can hurt ourselves or others.

There is always time to ruminate over what went wrong AFTER a safe landing.  Letting negative emotions leak from one part of a jump to the latter parts is a great way to waste a jump and increase EVERYONE'S risk.

Remember the definition of a good skydive... You walk into the hangar.  Anything more than that is gravy.

I am delighted to read that you had a good jump!

Blue Skies,

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[loveslavender 0]

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Eventually you'll realize it's a closely knit group of incestuous adrenaline freeks, and we all have off-days.

Hahaha!! LOL!! Too funnny...LMAO


The instructors I am going to are serious and hard core and extremely detail oriented. I expect to be annoyed, ticked off, whatever by him/them (there are 2 of them) at some point..I was told by a couple of AFF instructors once "AFF makes you feel like you are having a nervous breakdown" I realize that.

Yes after 50 jumps I will be able to handle more (I hope).. but right now I am at ppl's mercy before we jump. And so far protocol is really important.. and communication. I would think that would always be really key in jumping. idk I am just learning like I said. And I do plan on going back there to jump after I get my license.. As far as life skills and stress, I am in one of the most high stressed jobs there is. And not without all kinds of annoying people. I will always maintain I should have stopped that particular jump in the OP. If it makes me a bitch to a lot of ppl, then so be it. idk I don't care. I will be alive at least. I never expect everyone to agree with me either. And am glad to have different opinions of the situation.

[popsjumper 2]

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Just saying.

Well I just thank God you are not an instructor.

While you're at it, you might want to thank Him for being in the dark on just who it is you're talking to.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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If it makes me a bitch to a lot of ppl, then so be it. idk I don't care.

...and with that, I'm done.

What DZs are you talking about here, anyway?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[loveslavender 0]

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Just saying.

Well I just thank God you are not an instructor.

While you're at it, you might want to thank Him for being in the dark on just who it is you're talking to.


His whole quote is in the top..

[billvon 2,379]

>I've "at least" had enough training to know we don't just go up and jump
>out of an airplane and survive.

But if that's all you do, then your instructors have done a good job. Believe it or not, all that picky stuff (where to sit in the airplane, where to put your feet on exit, getting your head back, waving off etc) is, in the long run, to help you survive in this sport. There's a lot more to it than that - but you'll likely learn the other stuff on your own.

[Beachbum 0]

Aren't kid gloves and a powder puff issued to all new AFF-I's at the successful completion of their course?

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[thrillstalker 0]

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nor am I going back over why I feel I can't ASK him

so you havent even talked to the instructor who "mistreated" you??? wtf

it is bad to judge and find someone guilty without letting him/her explain themselves. for all you know he could have saved your life, or the life of everyone on board the aircraft.

ignorance may be bliss, but in skydiving it is suicide

you owe it to yourself as well as the instructor to get an explanation.

if after the explanation you are still not satisfied with the dz in question, fuck them. until then grow the fuck up and get a helmet, life is hard.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[loveslavender 0]

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Aren't kid gloves and a powder puff issued to all new AFF-I's at the successful completion of their course?

This thread is becoming ridiculous imo in some ways. I thank you all for the feedback and knowledge you are giving to me.. but trying to intimidate me out of the sport is not going to work. And acting like I am a big wussy isn't either. Or like I'm trying to slander someone. I had a legitimate concern and I was upset. I got some really good feedback and I enjoy the sport a lot.. though very inexperienced. I see where I went wrong, don't feel like I can talk to the skyGod that everyone wants me to. I have learned alot and mainly the biggest thing that one poster put is to stay in the moment no matter what happens.. also that it's ok as a student to at least "try" and get the service you are paying for. That being said.. I got so much already out of the instruction I already had and I have had some great instructors even if they were harsh or whatever.. I actually fly very well in case anyone is interested. Not from my own account.. from my instructor's. But I need a lot of work and I don't intend on quitting because ppl on here want to call me a wussy baby or whatever. If I was, I don't think I would be jumping out of airplanes. So thanks and have fun bashing me all you want. I just can't wait to get in the air again... this weekend actually going to do L3 again and yes at a DZ closer that I already had a connection with and not a sexual one for God sake. Mostly what I think about is getting in the air again. So no... I'm not letting anyone tell me to go down the road, quit or ridicule me out of the sport. If you have that opinion, you have taken me wrong and probably my fault because I posted while I was upset. I don't think this post is productive as trying to intimidate someone out of a the sport because they had a bad experience is not what imo should happen so I hope it gets deleted.

[kkeenan 13]

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This thread is becoming ridiculous ...

You sure have that right ! I have read the last few pages thinking, "Geez, those instructors sure have to put up with a lot. Not only do they have to care for and be responsible for their students, they have to put up with the whiney, bitchey ones like this, who think their ass should float to the plane on a silk pillow with the AFF-Is blowing them kisses all the way.

Get the fuck over yourself and realize what activity you're doing. Maybe you should take up bowling with a team of soft, happy bunnies.

Kevin Keenan

[jtnesbitt 0]

No one is trying to intimidate you or talk you out of the sport. You asked a question, you got many answers. At this point you are picking and choosing the answers you do and do not like.

You have been told time and again how to handle this situation but you dont like what people are saying. It sounds to me like you arent really asking a question, you already know the answer, you are just looking for other to support your position.

This is a dangerous position to be in. At your experience level you need to open up and relax. Stop focusing on insisting whether you are right or not and figure out how to handle the situation. You mentioned survival in your many posts. Survival in skydiving is properly handling the unexpected. Period.

Learn from yourself, learn from others, learn from instructors. Most importantly ASK questions. It is the only way you will learn.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[peregrinerose 0]

What I'm finding ironic in this thread is your constant stress on communication from your instructors, yet you adamantly refuse to communicate for yourself. Skydiving is a sport that your ego and your fears need to get put aside, and you will learn the most from the most humiliating situations.

Your refusal to understand the 'why' of the situation, to open yourself up to learning from someone that you may find distasteful as a person is going to be a very huge disservice to yourself in the long run. You'll learn less. That is sad to me.

This sport is full of type As that can come across as jackasses... that doesn't mean they don't have valuable information that they can share with you, and that doesn't mean that they aren't good people once you truly get to know them.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ShotterMG 0]

Welcome to skydiving. You are experiencing and learning about a well known problem in our sport. It's called the "skygod". They are very good at skydiving and absolutely rude and counter productive at teaching skydiving. The problem has gotten better in recent years but still remains. The irony is you have come to the Skygod clubhouse to vent about it! Ha. Here is where skygods go to pat each other on the back, yell at students, claim superiority and drown puppies. This is not real. 99% of the people you will actually meet in skydiving are not like that. Laugh it off. At real DZs you will mostly meet really greet people.

[Ron 7]

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What I get out of her comments is that she made movements in the AC during the time to be ready to move to the door and was swapping seats, all of this was on her own accord and not at the direction of the inside instructor. (take all your instructions from, Bob)

By deciding on her own (based on earlier jumps) to take action and move around, it would be the job and duty of the controlling instructor to correct the action.... most inside I's have a grip on the leg strap and it would be very easy to "man handle" one back in place, where they should be!

Anyone who has been there would be thinking WTF if your student started acting all fucked up and trying to swap seats while moving towards the door in exit order.

This +1.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[stratostar 5]

How about you just answer the goddamn question then,

Were you told at anytime to make those movements in the plane on jump run by the controlling instructor, yes or no?

Well I just thank God you are not an instructor. ***

Thank god your not my student! (here is the directions to the dz down the road)

AFF-I
Tandem -I
Static line-I
Coach
Pro
Sr. Rigger

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[dragon2 0]

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AFF-I
Tandem -I
Static line-I
Coach
Pro
Sr. Rigger

Meh, you're not a wingsuit instructor, so you don't know jack.




Wait.



Oh.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[doughboyshred 0]

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You've made no less than 15 posts in this thread complaining about your experience and yet you refuse to talk to the instructor in person about what happened. Stop being a passive aggressive whiner and deal with your issues head on.

Can't believe this thread is still moving on.

Passive aggressiveness will do you no good in life. This is a textbook case of that.

If you had a problem with your instructor the first thing you should have done is communicate your problems with your instructor. Instead you ignored him, complained to the DZ, and then came here to bitch about it.

You're not going to mesh with every instructor, or every jumper for that matter. You can either deal with it, or you can complain about it. You'll get further in life, if you deal more and complain less. I'm sure the same goes for this sport.

[Ron 7]

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nor am I going back over why I feel I can't ASK him

Then that is the only area that you failed that jump. Something happened and you refuse to learn why. It is only your refusal to try that caused that failure.

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nor am I going to explain why I could have easily NOT survived.

This is nothing but hysterics. If that is going to shake you up so bad that it could have killed you.... I hate to think how a malfunction will tax you.

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Protocol and communication are key to me right now and hopefully throughout the sport.

Yet you are complaining about protocol, and refusing to communicate with the one person who could answer your questions.

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I've "at least" had enough training to know we don't just go up and jump out of an airplane and survive.. there is more to it.. alot more.

Nope, thats about it. Anything else is unimportant in the grand vision.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Skyper 0]

what´s "rough" anyway?

On one of my first static line exits... JM asked me "are you ready" I said `no´ and I made a clear movement with my head indicating I´m not ready.

He pushed me through the door.

Is that rough?

Well, appeared rough to guys that were in the plane behind me, waiting to be dropped for the first static line jump... to me, that "push" was exactly what was needed.

[wmw999 2,114]

You are wise, sir.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Trae 1]

in reply to "JM#2 started pushing and shoving me back to the first bench.. he didn't just motion or move me (or tell me).. he shoved and pushed me over and over even though I got the message already he was still pushing my legs as if idk what his trip was.. "
...............................

JM#2 sounds like a real amateur.
Some people get pushy when they get too excited . As he didn't recognise your reactions at the time it also seems likely he was suffering from sensory overload as well as being unprofessional. Unfortunately the sport seems to attract plenty of people that can't really be cool in exciting situations.

You did the right thing going to management. They may have had other problems with this guy .
As a paying customer you have every right to be treated with dignity and respect.