Vigil fires on student low pull

[kimgriffin 0]

I received word recently that a Vigil AAD was put to use during a student jump at Adventure Skydiving Center in Hollister, Calif.

Jumpmaster Mark Kimber writes in his report to Vigil USA, “[The] AFF cat. D skydive was going fine until pull time. The student rolled on his back searching for the pilot chute until the Vigil did its job perfectly.”

Kimber reported that the student pulled his main at approx 1,600 ft. Around 1490 ft, the Vigil released the reserve parachute creating a two-canopy out situation. The Vigil was programmed in student mode (1040 ft/45 MPH) but the activation altitude had been adjusted + 450 feet by DZ staff.

Fortunately, both canopies found clean air and the student landed his main and reserve canopies uneventfully.

Dearest Moderator: Since no one was hurt, I wasn't sure if I should post this under "Incidents". Since I work for Vigil USA, I realize I need to tread carefully here when it comes to AADs!

~Kim Griffin
Vigil USA
Sales Manager
DeLand, Florida

[councilman24 36]

The subject of setting an AAD higher than the manufacturers default when landing at the take off site came up in previous years. What is Vigil USA's position on people doing that? Essentially two choices; let it work the way it's supposed to and only do it to offset ground level or anything goes.

On side of one argument is setting it higher created the two out unneccessarily.

This post is not intended to question ASC's actions.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[markbaur 0]

IIRC, Hollister's landing area is a 20-minute van ride from the airport, and at a higher elevation. It is not clear from Kim's post if the +450 was the adjustment for the dz (though I don't remember the difference being that great), or if they adjusted for dz and added another 450 feet.

I speculate they adjusted for only for the higher dz, and the Vigil fired high for the same reason a Cypres would in the same situation: misinterpreting higher air pressure (from rotation to feet-first) and thinking it was at a lower altitude.

Mark

[councilman24 36]

Thanks for the information. I'm not familiar with Hollister.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[hookitt 0]

Your information is correct about the landing zone.

It is significantly higher then the airport 12 miles away.

[mr2mk1g 10]

So what we have here is a product working entirely as designed and within its stated parameters...

[meatbomb 0]

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So what we have here is a product working entirely as designed and within its stated parameters...

Shhh!!! Don't say that! No good could ever come from the Vigil!! Don't you know it is the devil to the Angelic Cyprres?? Have you not read your briefing?

---
Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii!
Piccies

[DancingFlame 0]

Seems like it is true.
We had 2 Vigil fires last Saturday at Aerograd (low cutaways, both jumpers pulled themselves but Vigil still worked while reserve opening was in progress).

[skydiverton 0]

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I received word recently that a Vigil AAD was put to use during a student jump at Adventure Skydiving Center in Hollister, Calif.

Jumpmaster Mark Kimber writes in his report to Vigil USA, “[The] AFF cat. D skydive was going fine until pull time. The student rolled on his back searching for the pilot chute until the Vigil did its job perfectly.”

Kimber reported that the student pulled his main at approx 1,600 ft. Around 1490 ft, the Vigil released the reserve parachute creating a two-canopy out situation. The Vigil was programmed in student mode (1040 ft/45 MPH) but the activation altitude had been adjusted + 450 feet by DZ staff.

Fortunately, both canopies found clean air and the student landed his main and reserve canopies uneventfully.

Dearest Moderator: Since no one was hurt, I wasn't sure if I should post this under "Incidents". Since I work for Vigil USA, I realize I need to tread carefully here when it comes to AADs!

~Kim Griffin
Vigil USA
Sales Manager
DeLand, Florida

Why put an AAD 450ft higher?
Onlty reason I can think of is a DZ situated higher as the airfield.
For the rest the VIGIL did what it is designed for, nothing special about it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[LouDiamond 1]

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Why put an AAD 450ft higher?
Onlty reason I can think of is a DZ situated higher as the airfield.

If you go back and look at the previous posts you will find that is indeed the reason the unit was offset +450 feet.

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For the rest the VIGIL did what it is designed for, nothing special about it.

True, but again it is proof positive that they work as designed and they have saved peoples lives. In a community like skydiving where everyone is waiting to see what happens be it new canopies,gear or AADs, the Nay sayers are always quick to tell you whats wrong with it or why it won't work. Personally I like that Vigil is giving skydivers a viable option to the Cypress. It's a win -win situation for the skydiving community.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[riggerrob 558]

Sounds like the Vigil worked as designed.
Congrats.

This whole debate about re-setting AADs for higher altitudes has been around as long as AADs.
Some of our instructors - at Pitt Meadows - like to set FXCs at 1,200 or 1,300 feet, believing that it protects students better. I prefer to set them at 1,000 feet.
However, I also know that our last two-out included an FXC set to fire at 1,500 feet. That student pulled below 2,000' twice, landed both biplanes safely, then quit.
So plus 200' or 300' does not seem to make any difference, but 500' does.

[twister 0]

Fortunately, both canopies found clean air and the student landed his main and reserve canopies uneventfully.


If you have 2 out don't you have to dump te main and land with your reserve ??

[riggerrob 558]

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Fortunately, both canopies found clean air and the student landed his main and reserve canopies uneventfully.


If you have 2 out don't you have to dump the main and land with your reserve ??

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If the two canopies are playing well together (i.e. stable biplane or slow-turning side-by-side) don't mess with success. Land the two canopies with minimal toggle input.

[Nightingale 0]

Hollister's landing area is about 400 feet higher than the airport. that's why the AADs are set to fire higher there. I had to configure my cypres to fire higher when I jumped there because of the difference in elevation.

[peek 20]

Just my opinion, but I think postings of AAD's firing is perfectly appropriate for this forum. The skydiving public is always going to be eager to get information on the operation of an AAD, particularly a more recent design.

What would be interesting is if someone published a list of all AAD firings from all models and manufacturers.

Many firings from the past would be difficult to document, but I would think since the Cypres became popular, that firings have been kept track of. By who I don't know really know.

[PhreeZone 14]

Airtec/SSK used to have records of all the firings prior to the introduction of the field replaceable cutter. After then it just got too easy to have your rigger install a new cutter and no one was wiser.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[speedy 0]

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Airtec/SSK used to have records of all the firings prior to the introduction of the field replaceable cutter. After then it just got too easy to have your rigger install a new cutter and no one was wiser.

Well, I guess I'll blow the whistle on this one today. Low pull, cypres fire and a landing with two out in a bi-plane. The student never knew he had a two out until he had landed

Still, no injuries and another day survived at the DZ.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[nate_1979 9]

[reply}

Well, I guess I'll blow the whistle on this one today. Low pull, cypres fire and a landing with two out in a bi-plane. The student never knew he had a two out until he had landed

Still, no injuries and another day survived at the DZ.

[dragon2 0]

When I had my 2 out (FXC12000 fire), my main was quite alright for a bit. Did my canopy checks, checked alti (ooops 2000ft). Then my canopy started to behave somewhat sluggish. Looked up, and further up, oh sh*t.

My freebag had been trailing me for a bit, I never noticed untill the reserve was fully open and started to push at my main. Never consciously saw the extra risers, either...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[apoil 0]

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If you go back and look at the previous posts you will find that is indeed the reason the unit was offset +450 feet.

Another possible selling point for the vigil is that it retains the programmed offset from jump to jump.

At Hollister, our CYPRESes must be switched off and on and reprogrammed on every single jump.

The downside of course is that the programmed offset must be unprogrammed before jumping at just about any other DZ.

To further clarify on this incident:
The student did not handle the two out situation very well. He cut away his main from a stable bi-plane at 200 feet and is quite lucky that no entanglement resulted.

[schwede 0]

Luckily the LZ is higher then the starting area, according to the Vigil handbook you can't set it to the opposite situation.. i.e if the LZ is lower then the starting point....

Schwede
"Das Leben ist schön, nicht immer aber immer öfter"

[Shark 0]

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Luckily the LZ is higher then the starting area, according to the Vigil handbook you can't set it to the opposite situation.. i.e if the LZ is lower then the starting point....

I don't see how that would be dangerous. So you open a little higher relative to your departure altitude. There are not that many DZs around with that type of landing situation.

[BIGUN 1,050]

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Kimber reported that the student pulled his main at approx 1,600 ft. Around 1490 ft, the Vigil released the reserve parachute creating a two-canopy out situation. The Vigil was programmed in student mode (1040 ft/45 MPH) but the activation altitude had been adjusted + 450 feet by DZ staff.

After reading the thread, would it be safe to say, "The Vigil was programmed in student mode and the activation altitude had been adjusted + 450 feet by DZ staff to offset for the higher landing DZ elevation. The Vigil fired at the requisite 1040 ft (AGL) /45 MPH as intended by the manufacturer?"

Secondly, I would like to know the status of the Vigil. There have been so many, use, don't use, partial recall, total recalls running around that I don't know what the status is.

Cool website - easy to navigate.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.