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NewGuy2005

Need Advice From Runners

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Hi Folks. I need advice. Here are the up fronts:

Male
Age 56
5' 11"
180 pounds. My ideal weight is probably between 160-170 pounds
Shoes: Asics GT 2000

I have been running off and on since I was 22 years old. I have never been a high mileage
runner. I usually run 3 miles, 4 times per week.

In the last few years, I have been gradually getting an increase in knee pain. The pain is in my patellar tendons, classic "runners knee."

I have also been having trouble with plantar fasciitis. Running makes it worse. However, even walking in my running shoes causes it to flare up.

Walking in my Birkenstock sandals keeps the plantar fasciitis in check, mostly.

I stopped running last fall to let everything heal over the winter. I switched to walking and rowing on a good rowing ergometer.

I have only run a few times since last fall and the plantar fasciitis is back. I have been thinking that it's time to quit running for good, but I hate to do that because I really enjoy it and nothing else gives you the fitness benefits that even a casual running routine provides.

That being said, I would like to give it another try. Here is what I am thinking: I think I need to go to a completely different shoe. I am thinking some kind of zero rise shoe would be beneficial. I don't like the idea of minimalist or barefoot. I think I would benefit from padding, but the elevated heel feels very un-natural after I have been wearing my Birkenstocks for an extended period. In fact, I find that it takes a few minutes to adjust my gait after I put my running shoes on.

I also understand that my increased weight is not helping. Stretching is going to be critical as well, at my age.

Will the change in shoes help? Can you recommend a zero rise shoe for a casual runner? I hear a lot about the Hoka One and other highly padded shoes that seem to be in vogue right now. What's the story there?

Thanks!

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If I were more current, I could help but... alas I haven't run since 1990 after a heavy training regimen including a marathon and lack of recovery time from it left my achilles heel tendons looking like someone took a coarse rasp and raked them over good. That took a whole year just to recover from to the point where I could walk without pain. I did try to get back into it but my heart just wasn't in it anymore.

That said, you do need to change shoes every few months while the cushions are still fresh. I can't help you with today's shoe selections because I have no idea what's out there now.

I'd tell you to find something else to do to get your cardio workouts, but it's your life. Swimming and biking won't beat up your knees/ankles/feet like running does.

Hopefully others more current than me can help you. Good luck.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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Is it painful while you're running? If so, are you sure that it's plantar fasciitis?

For me, I've noticed that there is no pain while I'm active. Any inflammation is typically noticed after periods of rest - such as waking up in the morning or getting off the couch after a movie.

I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be any inflammation/pain when getting up from my office chair after long periods - it's usually only when getting up from a recliner or from a bed when my legs were elevated that I have an issue - so maybe posture and circulation have something to do with it - but that's just my anecdotal 2 cents.

Since it hasn't necessarily affected my activities, I haven't really taken any steps to address the pain - so I can't help with regard to a particular type of shoe. In my opinion it probably wouldn't make much difference anyway.
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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Your question is not about running but about an injury (IMO)... My advice is to ask a sports doctor and not other runners...

But *do* try to find a specialist that is also a runner.
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

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Nataly

Your question is not about running but about an injury (IMO)... My advice is to ask a sports doctor and not other runners...

But *do* try to find a specialist that is also a runner.



^^^^^
This. Maybe an orthopedic?
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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BillyVance

***Your question is not about running but about an injury (IMO)... My advice is to ask a sports doctor and not other runners...

But *do* try to find a specialist that is also a runner.



^^^^^
This. Maybe an orthopedic?

Ya, maybe an orthopedic specializing in anti-aging regenerative medicine/stem cell research.
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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Ken - I just searched and dug this up from 8 years ago... Sorry I'm using cut-n-past, but too much to try and recall;)...

OK, I have been diagnosed with Plantar Fasciitis before. I think you may have some good options.

I went through all kinds of stuff... Went to an ortho and got some nice cortisone shots right into my Heels... Holy crap that hurt!!!.. That only helped for a week and the pain was killing me again..

Then, I went to see the podiatrist and he fit me for some RIGID arch supports.. They caused more pain in the sides of my feet and ankles then the PF..

Finally, I went to a sports medicine place and got hooked up with a physical therapist that happened to work with the local college basketball team.. Guess what.. PF can become a pretty “common” problem if you don’t prevent it.. At least that what he told me, and he was a paid trainer for the team..

I was fit for FLEXIBLE arch supports, made by a company called Biomechanical. Now I just wear Super Feet Supports - REI has them and some running places. I also had some 800 mg Ibuprofen to help with the inflammation.

Within a month, including physical therapy to get me walking straight again, I was back to walking, running, and skydiving (yes, lots of comments about jumping causing the problem) and never had to get more shots in the bottom of my feet..

I still wear the arch supports today. If I don't wear them for a couple days in a row, the pain does start to come back. Then back into the arch supports and I can feel the bottoms of my feet stretch, then no pain..:)
So, look for a Sports Med guy - Or, you can look for the SuperFeet at your local place.. I wear the "Green" heavy duty ones most of the time.. I also have the orange more flexible ones for some occasions - like IF I do want to run..

T


Once the plane takes off, you're gonna have to land - Might as well jump out!!

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TEB6363

I was fit for FLEXIBLE arch supports, made by a company called Biomechanical.



Is that just for those with plantar fasciitis caused by high arches?

TEB6363

I also had some 800 mg Ibuprofen to help with the inflammation.



That may be safe with cortisone shots, but there may be adverse reactions with those treating it with buschmills.
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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My physical therapist said that Any arch support should be flexible.. He put Everyone on the basketball team in arch supports to prevent foot injury/damage..

I understand that arch supports are for Plantar Fasciitis from "falling arches" or similar foot strain.

I do not know if they would help if the Plantar Fascia has been strained from another issue..

The Ibuprofen was prescribed from the Sports Doc.. Well after the Cortisone shots..

Is Buschmills the whiskey??;)


Once the plane takes off, you're gonna have to land - Might as well jump out!!

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TEB6363

Is Buschmills the whiskey??;)



You Bet!:P

TEB6363

I understand that arch supports are for Plantar Fasciitis from "falling arches" or similar foot strain.

I do not know if they would help if the Plantar Fascia has been strained from another issue..



No flat feet here - That's why I use Buschmills. . .
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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OK I think I can relate to you, so will tell you how I'm thinking about handling a similar situation.

I grew up a cross-country runner and was offered a scholarship to run in college.

Male
Age 49
5'11'
180-175 lbs.

My resting heart rate in college at peek of running was 38 beats-per-minute, and even today as a sedentary 49 year old it is still 46 beats-per-minute.

My knees are falling apart to the extent I'll soon need surgery. If I were you...

I would get the best shoes possible for running, but at the same time diversify your exercise routine. Running has pounded my knees into the ground and as we both age those knees simple are not going to return to what they were when we were 20 years old.

So, do things that get your heart rate up, but that use different muscles and joints.

Bike, or join a gym and do a spinning class.
Swim.
do the rowing machine.
take up light weight lifting.
Get a TRX.
Take up hiking in nature.

Do things to keep the aerobic fitness routine but diversify how you get our heart rate up.

That is MHO. Ask your doctor who hopefully specializes in sports medicine.

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I love that there are other skydiver/runner out there!

I have been an ultra/long distance runner for the past 6 years, I make all of my own training plans and have placed in age groups with a few podium wins the last couple race seasons on shorter (10K and 1/2 marathon) distances.

I absolutely swear by my Altra's. How you run and the surface that you are running on are obviously going to greatly influence how your body handles the effort, but a good solid foundation is essential. I run almost strictly in the Lone Peak model, and have a few pairs from the last four versions they have released. When you transition from your shoes that you are currently running in to the zero drop models you are going to need to do so gradually- wear your Altra's like every other run until you stop being sore. That said, what I experienced what that my tendons and ligaments around my feet and ankles were sore for the first 4-6 weeks of running in zero drop shoes. Since then I haven't had any issues.

Another EXTREMELY important consideration with injury prevention in running is your progression. The number one mistake that almost every runner makes is adding too much, too fast. Your mileage (or time if you run by that instead) should progress no more than 10% per week....
So if you run 3 miles week one, then run 3.3 miles week 2.
3.6 miles week 3.
4 miles week 4.
4.4 miles week 5...you see where I am going with this. It's really hard to limit the progression like this, especially when you start to get in shape and feel great with your current distance. That said, injuries never feel great. If you feel like you are not getting enough exercise with a 10% progression then cross train like crazy!

Which is my point three for you- you cannot possible over-value crosstraining. I work out nearly every day, but I mix up what I do. Bike one day, run 2-3X a week, go to yoga (seriously, yoga is amazing for everyone but especially runners. It will be a game changer for you!), swim, hike...Stay active but keep running to no more than 3X per week.

Sorry- this is a lot. The short answer to your question is that Altra makes several amazing shoes and I can't say enough how much they may help you. Try that and even a litttttle bit of the above advice and you should be back on the road to running without injury!

Blue skies and happy trails,
Lauren

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blondie18

I love that there are other skydiver/runner out there!

I have been an ultra/long distance runner for the past 6 years, I make all of my own training plans and have placed in age groups with a few podium wins the last couple race seasons on shorter (10K and 1/2 marathon) distances.

I absolutely swear by my Altra's. How you run and the surface that you are running on are obviously going to greatly influence how your body handles the effort, but a good solid foundation is essential. I run almost strictly in the Lone Peak model, and have a few pairs from the last four versions they have released. When you transition from your shoes that you are currently running in to the zero drop models you are going to need to do so gradually- wear your Altra's like every other run until you stop being sore. That said, what I experienced what that my tendons and ligaments around my feet and ankles were sore for the first 4-6 weeks of running in zero drop shoes. Since then I haven't had any issues.

Another EXTREMELY important consideration with injury prevention in running is your progression. The number one mistake that almost every runner makes is adding too much, too fast. Your mileage (or time if you run by that instead) should progress no more than 10% per week....
So if you run 3 miles week one, then run 3.3 miles week 2.
3.6 miles week 3.
4 miles week 4.
4.4 miles week 5...you see where I am going with this. It's really hard to limit the progression like this, especially when you start to get in shape and feel great with your current distance. That said, injuries never feel great. If you feel like you are not getting enough exercise with a 10% progression then cross train like crazy!

Which is my point three for you- you cannot possible over-value crosstraining. I work out nearly every day, but I mix up what I do. Bike one day, run 2-3X a week, go to yoga (seriously, yoga is amazing for everyone but especially runners. It will be a game changer for you!), swim, hike...Stay active but keep running to no more than 3X per week.

Sorry- this is a lot. The short answer to your question is that Altra makes several amazing shoes and I can't say enough how much they may help you. Try that and even a litttttle bit of the above advice and you should be back on the road to running without injury!

Blue skies and happy trails,
Lauren



blondie18, a most excellent post! To the point that I am going to buy some Altra's and give it another go (switched to 100% mountain biking years ago) after similar issues as NewGuy2005. Interesting/knowledgeable advice on increasing mileage. Yes, a nice sunny day (previously doing 6), "body feels good"......so I'm doing 10 today.Later, bod's wondering what the....

A good friend and fellow skydiver (3 x Hawaiian Iron Man competitor.....and many others) also had similar issues. He chose to have a CO surgeon go in to the bottoms of his feet and snip nerve endings in problem areas. It worked great for him,(for awhile) however, he ultimately had to stop running all together, and have a hip surgery. Now road bikes (not in winter) and swims.

Thanks again, some real good info!

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I like a majority of the advice here. Before 2015, I had only run a total of 3 half marathons, and never more than one in a year. In 2015 I ran 13 half marathons, two Ragnar Relays (including one ultra), three 10Ks, and a variety of 5K and 5-milers. In my 20s and 30s I had issues with knee strain, Morton's neuroma (had to have two removed), various stress fractures, and achilles tendonitis. Since I went crazy with the racing, I've had some aches and minor pains, and may have mild tendonitis my feet (perhaps a slight "stump neuroma" developing as well), but nothing that doesn't go away at the latest by the following day.

Stats:
Age -- 45 (for now)
Ht: 5'4"
Wt: 148 (ideal weight 130-135)

None of this running has resulted in weight loss, FYI. I work some strength training in as well, but not really enough to make a difference.

A few things I wanted to share. First, I used to run only in Asics as well, until I started running distance. Even when I wasn't running much (not even as much as you), and weighed around 125, the Asics just broke down too quickly. Switched to Mizuno, but I might look at Brooks for my next pair. Some coworkers swear by Newtons. Anyway, your shoes should work for you. I went through five pair last year. Already looking to get my second pair for this calendar year. Consult a couple of experts when deciding what level of stability and which style/brand work for you.

Second, when I returned to half marathons after about a decade of doing sprint and Olympic triathlons, I incorporated what I've learned is the "Galloway" style. Run/walk. For a half marathon, I set my watch for 12.5 min running and 2.5 min walking. Even in the early stages of a race when I'm feeling really good, I force myself to walk during the walking intervals (I allow myself to adjust some of the walk time if, for example, I'm on a hilly course and need to walk during a run interval). This technique gives your body time to recover over the duration of your run. Many runners' stride and running posture deteriorate badly when they're fatigued. If you keep pushing through when you're exhausted, you'll put extra strain on muscles and joints by that bad stride. If you give yourself the time to recover during your runs, you'll find you can pinpoint where you're starting to feel that first ache, and then rest up and correct your posture and stride again when you're back to a running interval. (for shorter distances, consider a breakout of 4 min running, 1 min walking. That eventually can be lengthened as you start to go farther and feel better).

Third: ice is the wonder drug that works wonders. Get ice on the bottoms of those feet, and other times roll your foot over a tennis ball or golf ball. The rolling will stretch the tendons, and serve as sort of a deep tissue massage (only as deep as you can tolerate). The ice will reduce swelling and pain. You can consult an ortho or physical therapist to see how to incorporate ice into your recovery for the best results.

Finally, I want to say again I agree with many others here, that cross-training is a MUST. That's how I got into triathlon. Swimming takes the strain off your legs and feet, while cycling helps keep the knee pain in check. And though you're basically moving in the same dynamic motions whether running or cycling, you are at least engaging different muscle groups, so you're still getting a different workout.

So, that's what worked for me. Saturday I did a hilly 5k, and Sunday ran a half marathon, also with a lot of hills. Shortly after the race I boarded an aircraft for the first of two flights to get home, totaling more than five hours sitting in an airline seat. Today my quads are a little achy from the hills, but all my joints feel fine. That was my 5th half marathon since late February. If you told me last year how far I would have run between then and now, I wouldn't have believed you. Your results inevitably will vary, but I hope you can see some improvements with some of the advice you choose to incorporate. Then, we'll all do This race next year!! B|

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

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You're unlikely to solve a problem if you don't know what the cause is. It would be worth seeing a podiatrist or sports physio who can do gait analysis and tell you if there's anything about the way you run which causes problems, and tell you what you can do to control it. They may also find it useful to see a pair of your running shoes since the wear pattern can be informative.
Anne

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I used a night splint that kept my foot in a gentle stretch overnight for a month and it cleared up eventually. I don't envy you with plantar faciitis. It's really sore.

But as others point out. See a sports physio or the doc.

Good luck

Adam

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Quote

blondie18, a most excellent post! To the point that I am going to buy some Altra's and give it another go (switched to 100% mountain biking years ago) after similar issues as NewGuy2005.



Word of caution: Altra's are a zero drop shoe. If you have never run with a zero drop shoe you will require an extremely slow progression and build up of mileage. If not, your calves and achilles will force you to stop running due to injury.

My biggest advice on running shoes is to never ever go by recommendations from other people, colours, or name recognition. Look around in the local community and find a running specific store. They will be able to look at your gait and match a running shoe to your gait.

blondie18's advice related to the 10% rule of mileage building is the single most important piece of advice on here. Anything else and you will get injured.

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SkyDekker

Quote

blondie18, a most excellent post! To the point that I am going to buy some Altra's and give it another go (switched to 100% mountain biking years ago) after similar issues as NewGuy2005.



Word of caution: Altra's are a zero drop shoe. If you have never run with a zero drop shoe you will require an extremely slow progression and build up of mileage. If not, your calves and achilles will force you to stop running due to injury.

My biggest advice on running shoes is to never ever go by recommendations from other people, colours, or name recognition. Look around in the local community and find a running specific store. They will be able to look at your gait and match a running shoe to your gait.

blondie18's advice related to the 10% rule of mileage building is the single most important piece of advice on here. Anything else and you will get injured.



SkyDekker, thanks for the "heads-up" on the zero drop transition. No, I have not run in zero drop. I will take your advice and ease into them. That 10% rule did get my attention. I checked out the Altra's online and I liked the "more room in the toe area" concept. It seemed in the past I could keep my toes from getting slammed while trail running, but the trade off was real tight lacing across the top of foot....ouch. I get your point about having the pro's fit me but it's not doable right now.

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