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ryoder

Teen girl lands plane on golf course

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TriGirl

***
Hey, do you think the golf course charged her green fees?


Not if she replaced her own divots.
:P

You'd think it would have been easier to just rent a cart.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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wolfriverjoe

That's a problem with electric flaps. They take time, and often take attention - In the Cessnas I've flown, if you only want partial flaps, you have to put the switch down, watch the gauge, then put it back to "off" when you get the setting you want. Maybe 15 seconds to extend them.



We have a system that sounds very much like that in our V-tail Bonanza, but I've never seen one like that in a Cessna, granted I haven't flown too many types (182, 172, 150). The ones I've always seen are like the attached photo.

I do like the Pipers, they're easy, never gotta worry about mixing up the gear switch and the flap switch (and landing a beautiful Bonanza with the gear up... but that was another pilot), and they are all the freaking same on the Piper aircraft that I've flown (Arrow, Cherokee, Lance and Seminole)
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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wolfriverjoe


That's a problem with electric flaps. They take time, and often take attention -

Yep, as a skydiver I'm very familiar with the mechanical flap mech. on the old Skylanes. Those electric flaps sound like a bit of a step backwards, don't they? Thanks for the fine points. .:)

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theonlyski

***That's a problem with electric flaps. They take time, and often take attention - In the Cessnas I've flown, if you only want partial flaps, you have to put the switch down, watch the gauge, then put it back to "off" when you get the setting you want. Maybe 15 seconds to extend them.



We have a system that sounds very much like that in our V-tail Bonanza, but I've never seen one like that in a Cessna, granted I haven't flown too many types (182, 172, 150). The ones I've always seen are like the attached photo.

I do like the Pipers, they're easy, never gotta worry about mixing up the gear switch and the flap switch (and landing a beautiful Bonanza with the gear up... but that was another pilot), and they are all the freaking same on the Piper aircraft that I've flown (Arrow, Cherokee, Lance and Seminole)

What? I thought all you did was Ski.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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JohnMitchell

***
That's a problem with electric flaps. They take time, and often take attention -

Yep, as a skydiver I'm very familiar with the mechanical flap mech. on the old Skylanes. Those electric flaps sound like a bit of a step backwards, don't they? Thanks for the fine points. .:)
They really suck when the dogged out 206 loses the electrical system and has to land on a short grass strip, loaded with jumpers and no flaps.:o
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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theonlyski



They really suck when the dogged out 206 loses the electrical system and has to land on a short grass strip, loaded with jumpers and no flaps.:o



When I was working on adding SEL to my private ticket, I was taking dual instruction one day, and had just entered the pattern. I flipped the flap switch to get the first 10 degrees. Anticipating the need for pitch change...nothing happening. Twiddled the switch again. Nothing. WTF?:o Then I noticed the instructor...grinning as she twirled a fuse between her fingers.>:(

:D
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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muff528

******AOPA full story: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/july/06/fearless-student-pilot-lands-safely-after-engine-failure

He said an NTSB examination determined that a cracked intake valve lodged itself in the exhaust manifold and triggered a rapid set of events that led to the engine failure.

...
She said she landed fine but “was coming in really fast. When I came in, I hit a hill and it launched me back in the air and then a wingtip contacted a tree and that spun me around.” When the Cessna 150 contacted the ground “it hit on the nose” and collapsed the front gear.
...
When asked what she would change if she had to do it all over again, Lund said she would “probably put flaps in if I had time but I didn’t really have that much time.



Great story. Just don't be getting any ideas, ""There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes.." a C140 isn't all that fast.

OK, I'm not a pilot, but (depending on her speed at that point) I wonder if flaps might have made things worse when she was "launched" back into the air by the hill. I'm imagining something like flaring a canopy too high and then dropping straight down. (maybe an invalid comparison?)

Most of my time is in a C-182 with manual flaps. Four notches with 10,20,30 and forty degrees of deflection. The first two settings produce more lift than drag and the second two more drag than lift. But the flaps are still producing lift at the 30 & 40 degree deflection settings.

With power(65% or better) you can have a slower stall speed with 30-40 degree settings and without power 20 would be the best setting.

At 400 feet AGL which is supposedly the altitude where the engine failed. You would have time to lower the nose, to maintain reasonable airspeed, identify a landing spot and shortly thereafter you would be on the ground.

If she was really on the money she may have had time to check fuel on both tanks, mags both, power full, mixture full rich... oh oh on the ground. Don't get sidetracked when aviating. Four hundred isn't four thousand or fourteen thousand feet.

Cessna electric flaps are slow. Five to six seconds per 10 degrees seems about right.

When flying jumpers in the summer you get some great thermals. On occasion I would get into a strong thermal which would increase the climb rate from 400-600 FPM climb to 700-800 fpm. In order to stay in the core of the thermal I would drop two notches of flaps which would allow 60-65 indicated and 20-30 degree banking. I could stay in the lift for 3-4 minutes. I've also seen 1200' FPM with four jumpers.

The change in pitch from power to without power can catch a novice by surprise.Pitch is decreased to maintain airspeed to preclude possible stall or reduced control authority. About 25 years ago I got a chance to fly a hang glider towed behind a boat.Like this one:https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/87571

Previously the hang gliders I'd flown had 8 - 10 to 1 glide ratios. These first generation hang gliders as pictured above have a glide ratio of about 3-4 to 1. Anyway I released the tow rope at about 600' above the water and pulled the nose down about 15 degrees. Nothing to much effect. So I pulled it in another 5 degrees and still no real control authority. So I yanked back on the control bar another ten degrees and low and behold its flying nicely. All in about five seconds. I'm thinking wow what a pig. Was still fun none the less.

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wolfriverjoe

...
Just from what I see in the pics, the plane is fixable. A bit of sheetmetal on the wings, new wingtips, new nose gear (maybe straighten out the firewall), new prop (fixed pitch - it is maybe fixable). I've seen worse put back into shape and flown again (yes, I flew them).



Minus $4-5000 for resale value on a aircraft with damage history.

Prop $2000
engine $7000
carb box 800
nose gear $2000
firewall 2000
engine mount 1000
both wings 8000
paint 7000

Its a 71 and probably books at 28-32K. Just M.O.

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>I'm not a pilot, but I used to judge their actions professionally.

That's funny!! Yep, I can feel you guys up there judging. Sometimes, I even hear it too..[:/]


>Real pilots, critique away.

It looks to me like she did a great job. As for the flaps...landing on a golf course certainly qualifies as a "short field" landing. Flaps in that airplane would provide increased lift and a slower approach speed. The POH would call for full flaps for a short field landing. Having said that, every emergency is different and what matters is the outcome. I think she did great.

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rmarshall234

>I'm not a pilot, but I used to judge their actions professionally.

That's funny!! Yep, I can feel you guys up there judging. Sometimes, I even hear it too..[:/]


>Real pilots, critique away.

It looks to me like she did a great job. As for the flaps...landing on a golf course certainly qualifies as a "short field" landing. Flaps in that airplane would provide increased lift and a slower approach speed. The POH would call for full flaps for a short field landing. Having said that, every emergency is different and what matters is the outcome. I think she did great.



Agree on the great job. A golf course landing is a short field landing, par five fairways aside.

I would concede. If you had perfect technique in the aircraft, forty flaps(no power) would allow you to really stick a landing. Given soft field, trees, power lines, etc.

Full 40 degree flaps are really designed for power on landings. When the prop blast can act directly on the flaps alot of lift is created. Without power only airspeed is acting as lift and the increased drag at 30 and forty degrees bleeds off airspeed and energy.Energy that can be used for a more nuanced rotation on landing. Very high decent rates can develop with full flaps.

Without power and 40 flaps the rotation has to be near perfect because the airspeed will bleed off quicker. This sets aside the issues of trim, 40 degrees produces high nose down pitching and normally requires substantial trim adjustment. If the trim wasn't adjusted and 40 degrees was just initiated from climbing flight. There would be an issue of how much elevator authority would be left to rotate with. Given the control yoke would be already quite far back. Trim, pitch is adjusted by changing the entire horizontal stabilizer's angle of attack.

There are great videos on you-tube of the short field landing contests in Alaska. Super cubs at full power, full flaps, brakes locked, 15-20 and even 25 degree positive angle of attack landings. All designed to bring the aircraft to full stop in twenty to thirty feet. The record 13'.
Thats if they don't nose over from the brakes being locked.

This video shows a C-150 full flap short field landing. Its the first AC in the clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuE2cW8NMx8

Anyway, with 45 hours TT , 17 years old I wouldn't expect a Sullenberger result.

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JohnMitchell

***>I'm not a pilot, but I used to judge their actions professionally.

That's funny!! Yep, I can feel you guys up there judging. Sometimes, I even hear it too..[:/]

We try to be subtle. :D

Even in the break room?:)
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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turtlespeed

******>I'm not a pilot, but I used to judge their actions professionally.

That's funny!! Yep, I can feel you guys up there judging. Sometimes, I even hear it too..[:/]

We try to be subtle. :D

Even in the break room?:)

Do they even get breaks?
lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

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JohnMitchell

***Do they even get breaks?


Some guys made a career out of taking breaks. :S

Do you still go out to the runway and let the jet exhaust blow you around?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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turtlespeed

******Do they even get breaks?


Some guys made a career out of taking breaks. :S

Do you still go out to the runway and let the jet exhaust blow you around?

I don't think he is required to do that anymore since he no longer pushes tin.:P
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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ryoder

*********Do they even get breaks?


Some guys made a career out of taking breaks. :S

Do you still go out to the runway and let the jet exhaust blow you around?

I don't think he is required to do that anymore since he no longer pushes tin.:P

That's why I asked.:P
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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oldwomanc6

***I just put on my wing suit and stand behind the Twin Otter as it taxis out. :P



"Let's go fly a kite, up to the highest hight……."

:D

Let's go fly a kite and send it soaring.....
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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turtlespeed

******I just put on my wing suit and stand behind the Twin Otter as it taxis out. :P



"Let's go fly a kite, up to the highest hight……."

:D

Let's go fly a kite and send it soaring.....

Right into a tree, Charlie Brown style.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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BillyVance

*********I just put on my wing suit and stand behind the Twin Otter as it taxis out. :P



"Let's go fly a kite, up to the highest hight……."

:D

Let's go fly a kite and send it soaring.....

Right into a tree, Charlie Brown style.

And just to go full circle - you mean 17 yo girl style.;)
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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