Awkward & Tense family situation. Advice?

[skydude2000 3]

Hi guys,

I wanted to get some opinions from you experts on how to handle something that's been stopping me from sleeping. I'll try to keep it brief. My sister and I have been living together, splitting rent in a few different places for the last 3 or 4 years.

Two years ago, she, her boyfriend and I decided to buy a house together, splitting the downpayment. The agreement was that after at least one year, any one of us could ask to be bought out, and be paid our share of the increase in equity.

We each put up $10,000. It's been difficult. They've treated me like a tenant when they feel like it, asking me for small favours & trying to control how I used my unit. But treated me like a homeowner any time a large bill came in, often slapping me with $1,000+ bills randomly every couple of months. Which always seemed to coincide with them come after they returned from a vacation or bought a big ticket item; appliances, or a new vehicle.

They got pregnant and she had my nephew, while we were renovating the house, about $23,000 worth of renovations, to move in. He was 5 weeks premature, so he had a hard time sleeping and I could hear him up most nights.

Anyway, fast forward almost 2 years, I love the little bugger, and I was his first word. They've gotten pregnant again, and just had twins. I decided that was enough, didn't want to live through that again, and moved out 3 weeks ago.

I told them 6 months ago I wanted out, and they would need to buy me out. They had the house appraised 2 months ago to calculate the increase in equity to pay me my share. Her boyfriend told me the increase in value was about $51,000. I've been chasing him around since I moved out 6 weeks ago for a copy of the report that proved that, meanwhile, they cut me a cheque for $8200. (We factored in a $1634 property tax bill they dropped on me, I couldn't afford at the time, to be cut from my payout. That's fine).

I got the copy of the appraisal report Thursday afternoon. He booked an appointment for Friday afternoon with the lawyer to sign my name off the title. And has been constantly pushing me to confirm and go to the appointment and sign the papers. I had my stepmother who is a financial advisor, and my step-brother help me check through the numbers before I signed anything.

It turned out the house was appraised at $74000 increase in value, not the $51,000 he told me. Might not be the best move, but I've tried to let the financial experts in the family figure it out. Until they did, I've been on radio silence with my sister and her boyfriend until this is figured out.

They've been very manipulative, trying to appeal to my emotions by baiting me with my nieces and nephew. We're going to agree on a payment schedule tomorrow.

How do I face these people, knowing that they tried to screw me out of almost $9,000, and still maintain a strong relationship with their kids? I should mention that a good number of others in my family now feel terrible, after strongly helping convince me that buying a house with them was the right financial move.

I want to be tactful, but it feels great, knowing that Karma has caught up to them. Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[wmw999 2,121]

It sounds like you want to keep having a relationship. Personally, I couldn't imagine not having a relationship with a sibling, so that makes sense. You just have to decide for yourself first what the boundaries of that relationship are, and go forward from there.

Can you afford the money? Ie if you didn't get it, would you still eat and be able to afford a place to stay? That gives you power. It doesn't mean you should forgive this, but it means that it's in the quiver of things you can respond with. It also means that you have some time; complete resolution isn't essential immediately. You can plan it and execute.

Your relationship will change; if either she or you needs money or shelter from the other, you need a contract, or it needs to be a pure-up gift.

If they really actually need the money for the babies, consider either making a public gift of some of it, or else execute a contract (with a lawyer, and witnessed by a family member they respect and who will keep their mouth shut).

If you need the money immediately for food or shelter (not down payment on the house of your dreams, you know the difference), figure out how much you need and include that in your calculations. You don't need to share those calculations with them; they're your business.

Regardless, the reason to think all this through at the start is so that you can negotiate, execute, put it behind you, and build a different relationship on the new foundation. You'll never trust your brother in law completely to have your back, and thats reasonable. But if you take control of your side of the relationship, and have clear boundaries laid out for their side, it will probably be more likely to go a direction you can live with. You'll also get self respect from determining a course through a difficult situation, and you'll have that the rest of your life.

Good luck; I'm so sorry this happened and hope you can come out of it with relationships that can grow, just in a different direction. You and your sister's kids will benefit.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[oldwomanc6 38]

That's what I'd suggest, as well.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[skyjames 2]

Bummer,

The 3rd paragraph of your post puts the "family" equation part out of the picture. Family or not, treat me like shit, that's what you should expect in return.
You've been, and are still in process of being screwed once, want that to happen twice?

I'd sell, split proceeds ... or do whatever allows you to sleep.
Easy decision sitting on the outside looking in.
To many possible what if's, makes my brain ache.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

[skydude2000 3]

Hi All,

So we have an update.They figured out my sister's boyfriend miscalculated the mortgage payout. They owe me almost double what he originally offered me.

He now apparently feels betrayed by my parents, had some choice words with my Dad, who was then asked to leave. They've agreed to pay me the rest of my initial downpayment, and pay me the balance of the equity over the next 12 months.

I should also mention, that once I found out I was moving, my girlfriend suggested I should prepare to talk to an accountant or lawyer just in case this thing went sideways. I tried calling the mortgage broker, and our lawyer to get my own copies of the mortgage agreement, and the appraisal report that they were basing my payout on.

I was stonewalled by both the lawyer and the broker, even though my name is on almost all of the documents. Wouldn't give me ANYTHING. This was almost 2 months ago, right before I moved out. Then, when I insisted on seeing the appraisal report before I signed anything on Friday, my sister's boyfriend forwarded me a copy of the assessment Thursday afternoon, from the mortgage broker who told me they didn't have any of this documentation.

They tried to screw me, they got caught, and now they're pissed at everyone but themselves. I'm lucky and glad the rest of my family is starting to get behind me on this. Not sure I'd have been able to handle it on my own. . . .

PULL!! or DIE!!

[Phil1111 910]

Don't sign anything before you have the documents from the mortgage company. Get them yourself directly from the company if you're a signature to the mortgage.

GET YOUR OWN APPRAISAL. An appraisal from a independent appraiser is one person's opinion.

In plain language explain;

"The house goes on the market and is sold at market price.

Equity is split three ways.

They buy another house on their own and move there.

You all move on with your lives.

Appraisals do not mean squat. What matters is what someone will actual pay in that market, which could be substantially more or less than appraisal. "
When a home is sold there will be lawyers fees, realtor fees and moving expenses(split three ways). The home could be sold for 5% below the appraised amount or even less!

If they don't, or you don't, like the aforementioned option. Its 1/3 of equity of your appraisal in 60 days when title is transferred. Ensure that they qualify and place a new mortgage on the property. Such that you are no longer on the mortgage. Because you don't want your name on it if they miss payments, refinance and loose the house with your name still on the mortgage.

If that lawyer is not "forthcoming" he is not your lawyer he is their lawyer. Don't call him again.

A friend's mom transferred title to her daughter when she was 60 for estate planning purposes. Daughter gets married and 10 years later the mom finds out the house is fully mortgaged(about $300K). The daughter wants her to move out so she and hubby can sell it to pay off the mortgage.

Got the same sort of story on a eight section farm from someone else.

[tigra 0]

I wouldn't sign a deed without getting paid your fair share of the equity. If they are looking to refinance, that leaves 2 options. You sign off on the new security instrument (mortgage, deed of trust....) of the new loan to acknowledge the new lien or you sign a quit claim deed releasing your interest in exchange for being bought out. If they aren't ready or able to pay you but the refinance will benefit you all, then go with option one which allows them to move forward without you giving up your interest. They can't legally do anything with the property- sell, refinance, etc ... without your input either way.

There is no need for this to get personal or emotional unless you let it. Agree on a fair settlement and stick with it. You should not feel guilted into accepting less than what is reasonably owed to you.

[tigra 0]

Thanks for the mansplaining.

He was asking about his equity and did not mention whether he was financially responsible to repay any liens/ mortgage loans on the property. Those are two separate issues.

[BillyVance 34]

I hate to say this but hindsight is always 20/20... Being a "third wheel" to a couple and sharing a house in any way is just not a good idea, unless you're the owner and the couple are the tenant paying rent, or vice versa. Being involved with family makes it that much more sticky.

Good lesson here for others to learn from.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skydude2000 3]

Hi everybody,

So, another update. They agreed to wire me the balance of my initial downpayment this week, and pay me the rest of my share of the equity over 12 months. The appraisal was agreed upon as a condition of the buyout, and to refinance the mortgage without me.

It gets a bit more complicated. My sister's boyfriend owns a marketing company, so he's VERY good at, and has spent thousands of dollars learning how to persuade people. So I'm at a disadvantage. Which is why I asked some impartial family members, as impartial as can be, anyway, to reason with him. I know he'd convince me they don't owe me anything.

He still hasn't wired the balance, and he's invited my girlfriend and I over for dinner next week, to mend fences. I'm afraid this might be another ploy to get out of paying me, before any agreements on paper, are signed.

He clearly thinks this is a game he can win, and doesn't seem to care that he's pitting our family against each other, and using this against me.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[DanG 1]

Quote

...and he's invited my girlfriend and I over for dinner next week, to mend fences.

Aren't you guys busy that night? I'm pretty sure you have that thing that you just can't get out of.

- Dan G

[wmw999 2,121]

This. You're busy.

Your relationship has to be business, until business is taken care of. And getting an intermediary to help (as you did) is an excellent idea. Make sure that person doesn't feel like they're being used any more than they're actively volunteering for.

There might be a community mediation service you can use for free or a nominal sum; the one I used to volunteer at gave both parties a copy of the agreement, signed by both, that local judges would take into account if an issue later made it to court.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Phillbo 11]

Iago

The house goes on the market and is sold at market price.

Equity is split three ways.

They buy another house on their own and move there.

You all move on with your lives.

Appraisals do not mean squat. What matters is what someone will actual pay in that market, which could be substantially more or less than appraisal.

If I read the OP right the equity split would be 2 ways.

[airdvr 197]

If I'm understanding this correctly the home must either be re-financed (with the funds being used to buy out your half) or sold with the equity being split. Unfortunately I don't see a way to force their hand without getting an attorney involved.

Appraisals mean everything when there is a lender involved.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[skydude2000 3]

Correct, 2/3 to them, 1/3 to me. That's why the appraisal was done, 1. For them to refinance a further renovation, and 2. To buy me out.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[tigra 0]

Well, just remember they can't do anything without your signature and you are not under any obligation to provide that until you are satisfied.

If you decide to allow them to pay the balance over time, have them sign a note- it may or may not stand up in court if it ever came to that but at least you would have their acknowledgment of the debt.

And maybe postpone that dinner until everything is all said and done, then break bread together to show there are no hard feelings?

[skydude2000 3]

That's what I was thinking, too. They seem to always have an excuse for why the payment is late. And when I called the lawyer to get a copy of the mortgage agreement, details and the report, they wouldn't or couldn't provide them, and were all of a sudden, HIS lawyer, not OUR lawyer, even though all 3 of our names appear on most of the paperwork.

Big red flag. If they don't start transferring payments by the end of the week, or I don't have a signed agreement, it's back to the drawing board with the whole thing. But I'm not signing my name off ANYTHING until I see a whole lot of '0's in my bank account.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[billeisele 122]

if the market is up tell him it's time for another appraisal because now the property is worth more

don't sign anything until you have cash in hand

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[skydude2000 3]

The appraisal was completed at the end of September. Now they're insisting we go to this dinner to talk about it before they will transfer the money. I'm quite unhappy with the way they're handling this. Apparently they feel betrayed because I went around them to have the numbers checked before I signed anything instead of just asking them.

But I know they would have insisted the numbers were right and reassured me that the calculations were correct. If I go to this dinner without a neutral party, they'll try to convince me to either forgive the debt or tell me they'll pay me over time. They won't stop until they win.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[billvon 2,396]

As others have mentioned, probably best to forego the dinner until this is resolved.

If you feel you have to go, perhaps wait until they mention something neutral then say "oh, good! That's a relief. I thought you were just buying me dinner to try to get out of paying me what you owe me. I'm glad that's not the case." Bringing a friend is a good idea as well.

[JohnMitchell 14]

skydude2000

I'm quite unhappy with the way they're handling this. Apparently they feel betrayed because I went around them to have the numbers checked before I signed anything instead of just asking them.

Cheaters and cons always get upset when they're exposed. They are playing your emotions to bilk you out of what's rightfully yours. Don't let 'em.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Iago

I would call a halt to everything and lawyer up. It shouldn't cost you more than 150 or so for an initial consult.

Best advice here. I've had lawyers save me thousands of $$$. They may be S.O.B.s, but when you hire 'em, they're YOUR S.O.B.

[skydude2000 3]

Hi everybody,

Thanks for all the helpful advice so far
I really wish we could have gotten the money discussion out of the way, but at the end of the day, we still have to be family at the end of this. It might be better to wait until our parents get back anyway, so they don't try to wiggle out of the payments. I just feel better about being able to face them over the holidays, despite everything that's happened.

PULL!! or DIE!!