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# Anybody else annoyed

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when people use K when they mean 1000 and not 1024?

And I'm really not that much of a nerd.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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councilman24

when people use K when they mean 1000 and not 1024?

And I'm really not that much of a nerd.

Uh, not me. K is a standard abbreviation for the prefix kilo. Derived from a Greek word meaning thousand. Predates the digital age by a couple millennia.

Are you so American that you still resist the metric system? Microsoft started the K for 1024 thing. They were wrong then and are still wrong!
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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No.

The SI prefix for a thousand is kilo-, officially abbreviated as k.
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Well in that case, 1 K only means one unit of temperature (Kelvin).

So how does one distinguish the k = 1000 vs. k = 1024? I used to throw on a subscript denoting the base, 10 or 2, but that's nonstandard.

FWIW wikipedia says:
Quote

For the kilobyte, a second definition has been in common use in some fields of computer science and information technology, which is, however, inconsistent with the SI definition. It uses kilobyte as meaning 210 bytes = 1024 bytes, because of the mathematical coincidence that 2^10 is approximately 10^3. The reason for this application is that binary values natively used in computing are base 2 values, and not decimal based. The NIST comments on this confusion: "Faced with this reality, the IEEE Standards Board decided that IEEE standards will use the conventional, internationally adopted, definitions of the SI prefixes", instead of kilo for 1024.[3]

Example:

One "kilobyte" (kB) is 1024 bytes in JEDEC-standard, whereas the definition has shifted to, in most contexts, mean 1000 bytes (kB) in accordance with SI.

To address this confusion, a new set of binary prefixes have been introduced which are based on powers of 2. In that system, 1024 bytes are called a kibibyte or 1 KiB.

Looks like the 1000 definition is supposed to be the correct one now. Still it is messy when one looks at the free space on a hard drive or something, and two different sources give different numbers...

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That 2.4% difference isn't a big deal unless you're pushing the limits of an Arduino or something. ;)

I'm sure you'll live.
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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pchapman

Looks like the 1000 definition is supposed to be the correct one now. Still it is messy when one looks at the free space on a hard drive or something, and two different sources give different numbers...

Everyone knew that a 1k RAM was actually 1024 bits, but that "k" was close enough for the terminology. It was when the density got up to 2^16 = 65,536 bits that it looked odd to say a 65kbit RAM. So, the convention entered for K = 1024, and we called it a 64Kbit RAM. That would have been in the late 70's.

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***
Looks like the 1000 definition is supposed to be the correct one now. Still it is messy when one looks at the free space on a hard drive or something, and two different sources give different numbers...

Everyone knew that a 1k RAM was actually 1024 bits, but that "k" was close enough for the terminology. It was when the density got up to 2^16 = 65,536 bits that it looked odd to say a 65kbit RAM. So, the convention entered for K = 1024, and we called it a 64Kbit RAM. That would have been in the late 70's.

In this context you should use bytes instead of bits. 1k RAM is 1024 bytes of RAM (8 bits = 1 byte).

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gowlerk

***when people use K when they mean 1000 and not 1024?

And I'm really not that much of a nerd.

Uh, not me. K is a standard abbreviation for the prefix kilo. Derived from a Greek word meaning thousand. Predates the digital age by a couple millennia.

Are you so American that you still resist the metric system? Microsoft started the K for 1024 thing. They were wrong then and are still wrong!

I never associated the computer convention k=1024 with the metric kilo. K in computers was 1024. When your learning assembly language programming and have to figure out how many bytes each command takes so you can figure out the ram addresses for the program loops you need to know 1024.

And being a chemist I've used the metric system since high school. In the case of units I'm bilingual. But not going to buy 200 gms of cheese.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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You just have to be able to hold two contradictory ideas in your head at the same time.

It's easy, even the president-elect can do it.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

You just have to be able to hold two contradictory ideas in your head at the same time.

It's easy, even the president-elect can do it.

Not someone I want to emulate.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Ok, I guess I'm really old.

I learned that the shorthand for "Thousand" was "M".

And I'll use "K" for either thousand or 2^10th. They are different enough that confusion is unlikely.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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I try not to get annoyed... by very much...
So.. it's O "K" .. with me...
always knew it , to mean a thousand.
Grand ??? isn't it ?

jmy

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>I never associated the computer convention k=1024 with the metric kilo. K in computers was 1024.

Right - that seems like the important distinction; computer memory vs everything else. kb is 1024 bytes; km is 1000 meters.

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In skydiving it's traditional that Keys come in on the night flight.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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billvon

>I never associated the computer convention k=1024 with the metric kilo. K in computers was 1024.

Right - that seems like the important distinction; computer memory vs everything else. kb is 1024 bytes; km is 1000 meters.

And a 10k resistor is 10,000 ohms, 5kV = 5,000 volts, etc. It even makes its way into Imperial units: 1ksi = 1000 psi (used for units of stress by ancient engineers).
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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wolfriverjoe

Ok, I guess I'm really old.

I learned that the shorthand for "Thousand" was "M".

My 1946 MG's tach is calibrated in "M"s for thousands of rpm.

Under SI, M = mega = 10^6
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>In skydiving it's traditional that Keys come in on the night flight.

And Keyes usually drove to the DZ in the morning; she was often on the first load.

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Hi John,

Quote

1ksi = 1000 psi

Now, that takes me back a few years.

Quote

ancient engineers

As we said just before we graduated: 'Now I are one.'

Jerry Baumchen

PS)
Quote

My 1946 MG

That car, you & I are well past our 'Sell by date.'

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What is it with the letter K?

This post reminded me of a post I saw a few weeks ago on an air traffic control board:
Quote

Why do pilot feel the need to say "requesting flight following to kilo oscar Sierra hotel"? This may just be a pet peeve of mine but it is really annoying and hard to figure out what airport you are talking about. Do any other controllers find this annoying? You can pretty much guarantee that if you start with a " K" that I will be asking you the airport ID again. Now if you are headed out of the U.S. then I understand.

So in other words, controllers are annoyed at US pilots that say the full ICAO airport identifier, in this case KOSH, instead of using the FAA identifier OSH for Wittman Field, Oshkosh, WI.

When did the letter K become so maligned? Next thing you know, K will be expected to remain silent at the beginning of some words.

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Quote

I learned that the shorthand for "Thousand" was "M".

That would be correct still for division, but not multiplication. Kilo comes from Greek and Mille from Latin. What does that say about the ancient world?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

Quote

I learned that the shorthand for "Thousand" was "M".

That would be correct still for division, but not multiplication. Kilo comes from Greek and Mille from Latin. What does that say about the ancient world?

So, a millipede crawling across Italy would become a kilopod when it gets to Greece?

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For me this is only annoying if it is unclear which one is meant (2^10 or 10^3), which happens very rarely. More annoying is the ambiguous use of "b" or "B" for either bits or bytes. I see this much more often, it is not always easy to check which one is intended, and the difference between the two is significant.

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councilman24

when people use K when they mean 1000 and not 1024?

And I'm really not that much of a nerd.

Did you accidentally type that backwards? I was working on computers when they started becoming popular and I remember the occasional article in magazines like Byte apologizing for using k incorrectly when referring to computer memory.

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councilman24

when people use K when they mean 1000 and not 1024?

And I'm really not that much of a nerd.

K does mean 1000.
1024 is indicated with an 'i'

1 kB = 1000 bytes
1 KiB = 1024 bytes

But nobody except nerds, (like myself), know or use it so it almost doesn't matter anyway

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