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brenthutch

Sous vide

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DJL

You guys doing the remote start or timer. Do you leave raw meat in there all day long or is something frozen that thaws over the course of the day?



So tired remote cooking for the first time today. I did pork chops and froze it in the freezer over night. When I took it out of the freezer it when immediately into the bag to minimize any chance of contamination. Then before heading out the door, put a lot of ice into the pot.

I started dinner from my cell phone while at work. Got home. It was good, and something I would not have had the energy to do after a work day. Cooked it for an extra 30 min, might dial that back next time.

From this experience. I agree with the idea of putting the water pot in the refrigerator over night to cool it down further. Second is get a larger pot to increase the thermal mass of the water, so it to warm more slowly.

I'll post some more details for those interested, later.

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I did a little more reading on bacteria growth vs temperature, and found out that it REALLY matters how warm the temp is for bacteria to grow well. The literature is full of curves like the one attached, showing logarithmic growth vs temp. The fact that the Y axis is a log means that the curve is REALLY big in reality. The bacteria we worry about like e-coli and salmonella grow best at (surprise) around our body temp 98 degrees (37 deg C). Move away from that by even 20 deg F and growth is substantially reduced.

for example one curve showed (not the attached image, but similar to it):
1. At 98 deg F, doubling time is 20min
2. At 86 deg F, doubling time is 30min
3. At 77 deg, doubling time is 60min
4. At 68 deg, doubling time is 2 hours
5. At 60 deg, doubling time is 5 hours
6. At 50 deg, doubling time is 7 hours

So IMHO, (very humble opinion) the danger zone for this type of remote start cooking (a delay of 6-10 hours) is really between 65 deg - 110 degrees. You really want to get the food through that temp range pretty quickly.

So for me, in the winter I could see letting unfrozen meat sit in a water bath on my counter all working day (at 55-60 degrees). But in the summer some sort of chilling would be required, as the temp would be 75-80 in the house.

One remark I read on pasteurization said that yes pasteurization will kill all bacteria, but some bacteria produce toxins (e.g.botulism) and for those kind the question is not how many are still alive on this food, but how many WERE alive, as pasteurization does not break down the toxins. So it is always a good idea to minimize ability of bacteria to grow...
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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normiss

I can't par-boil, sous vide, pressure cook, nor boil ribs.
That's cheating.
:D
Low and slow on the smoker wins every time IMO.

I somewhat agree with you. I'll smoke pork ribs and brisket for 4-5 hours, then put them in a convection oven at 190-200 degrees F for the finish. Ribs need about 8 hours overall, brisket maybe 12-18 hours.

I've never gotten the perfect brisket yet, but I keep trying for the moist, fork-pull-apart, smoky flavor goodness I've seen the pros make. Trigirl, can you send me a pm on your recipe?

A coworker who's a very good cook raves about sous vide, and I can certainly see the attraction. For the most part, I cook low and slow anyway, and still like my steaks on the grill, then resting up to rare. I'm a late adopter to just about any kind of technology. Only started jumping squares a few years ago. ;):D

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AlanS


From this experience. I agree with the idea of putting the water pot in the refrigerator over night to cool it down further. Second is get a larger pot to increase the thermal mass of the water, so it to warm more slowly.



I think getting an insulated container of some kind for the pot would be best. Keeps the water cold when you want it cold, and saves energy when you want it warm, like for a long cook of ribs or brisket, so you are not effectively heating the entire house when you don't want to.
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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SethInMI

I did a little more reading on bacteria growth vs temperature,

for example one curve showed (not the attached image, but similar to it):
1. At 98 deg F, doubling time is 20min
2. At 86 deg F, doubling time is 30min
3. At 77 deg, doubling time is 60min
4. At 68 deg, doubling time is 2 hours
5. At 60 deg, doubling time is 5 hours
6. At 50 deg, doubling time is 7 hours

So IMHO, (very humble opinion) the danger zone for this type of remote start cooking (a delay of 6-10 hours) is really between 65 deg - 110 degrees. You really want to get the food through that temp range pretty quickly.



Seth, I totally agree with you. When making something you need to understand the temp profile for the entire day. I keep my thermostat at 55 degrees when I'm way which recently means the temp inside has been about 62 inside. In the summer that will be different, and needs to be watched much more carefully.

Also, I freeze the marinated meat and transfer it from the freezer to sous vide bag/underwater as quickly as possible.

Two things I think that can be done on days when cooking remotely is put the pot of water in the refrigerator over night, and also use a bigger pot. Increasing the thermal mass - i.e. volume vs surface area - which should make the temperature increase slower. I'll try to gather some data to see how effective this is.

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JohnMitchell

***I can't par-boil, sous vide, pressure cook, nor boil ribs.
That's cheating.
:D
Low and slow on the smoker wins every time IMO.

I somewhat agree with you. I'll smoke pork ribs and brisket for 4-5 hours, then put them in a convection oven at 190-200 degrees F for the finish. Ribs need about 8 hours overall, brisket maybe 12-18 hours.

I've never gotten the perfect brisket yet, but I keep trying for the moist, fork-pull-apart, smoky flavor goodness I've seen the pros make. Trigirl, can you send me a pm on your recipe?


Sure! I'll send it from home tonight. :)
See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

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I cook a LOT and I hate sous vide. I tried it at home a number of years ago when it was just starting to take off and I don't like the texture or anaemic look of things cooked in that fashion.
I even sent back a chicken ceasar at Gordon Ramsay's restaurant in Heathrow because they did it sous vide without mentioning it... Sure. It's cooked. But psychologically I don't want to eat pink chicken that has the texture of semi-raw chicken.

It's cooking wankery like foams and gels. It has a very specific application and time and place but isn't in my standard repertoire.

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In my understanding of sous vide cooking, it's due to the chef not finishing the meat. ;)

Sear or grill, at least a modicum of maillard reaction.
I prefer to cook in sous vide to just under the safe cooking temp, the meat will continue to cook from the radiant heat and the surface will get tasty and better textured.
There's a reason for chef's torches.B|
But don't waste your money on the searzall. ;)

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JohnMitchell

I've never cooked sous vide, but am passingly familiar with the process. For meats, much of the flavor is in the sear of heat and the smoke of flame. Would it be that sous vide lacks those ingredients?



Many people do a quick sear after it's done cooking to get that effect. I use a cast iron pan.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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normiss


Sear or grill, at least a modicum of maillard reaction.


I had to google that, but yep. ;)

When I do prime rib, it's 200F until the internal temp hits 130F (usually 3-4 hours), then out to rest for up to an hour, then a 5 minute sear at 450F and another 10 minute rest. Perfect prime rib, every time. And an easy way to time your dinner perfectly.

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yoink

I cook a LOT and I hate sous vide. I tried it at home a number of years ago when it was just starting to take off and I don't like the texture or anaemic look of things cooked in that fashion.
I even sent back a chicken ceasar at Gordon Ramsay's restaurant in Heathrow because they did it sous vide without mentioning it... Sure. It's cooked. But psychologically I don't want to eat pink chicken that has the texture of semi-raw chicken.

It's cooking wankery like foams and gels. It has a very specific application and time and place but isn't in my standard repertoire.



My wife doesn't like the color and texture you are talking about either. If you bump up the temp a bit you can achieve a more traditional texture and color while retaining the moisture of sous vide. Of course a quick sear/broil brings out more flavor and is esthetically pleasing.

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And that was my issue with it. If I have sear something to get the best flavour and colour anyway I might as well just do that from the start.
I will say that it has many more applications for vegetables than meats for me.

I keep pretty abreast of emerging techniques in cooking and I've found that most of the hi-tech fashionable stuff doesn't directly translate to a home cook. You can take principles from them though and apply them in a different way - so sous vide is all about low temperature cooking for a long time. Blumenthal does that with a steak in the oven - 125 degrees for 14 hours then finished with a blowtorch if I remember correctly.

If you're into stuff like this though you might try a book called The Food Lab by J Kenji. I just got given it for Christmas and it's really good.

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iopenhi

I have the Anova and have been loving it. I 'll echo what others have said in that the bluetooth feature is useless.
If we prepare NY strips or ribeye, I finish 'em outside on the gas side burner in a cast iron pan. Then de-glaze said pan with a bit of red wine, mushroom stock or whatever nad then add the juices left in the bottom of the sous-vide cook bag and use as a glaze for veg or spuds. Bon Appetit!



Dinner at your place then? Maybe I'll even show you how to fly those drones. :P
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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Wouldn't a cooler make a good vessel to cook in? I assume that temperatures used in Sous Vide don't approach those that would break down or damage a liner in a common plastic cooler. The cooler would work as an insulating container to keep the food cold in an ice bath all day. Once your cooker fires up the cooler would actually help prevent heat loss to the outside. A metal cooking pot, comparatively, makes for high thermal loss on both sides.

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kawisixer01

Wouldn't a cooler make a good vessel to cook in?



It would definitely increase the number of people you could cook for since the sous vide is really just a precision temperature control device for water. (The reason so many things are boiled, us you can precisely keep water at the boiling point and the the only variable in cooking is time.)

A cooler would be nice for a large cook out where you use the grill to finish off a steak. But in that environment you'd be dealing with comments from the peanut gallery about how "your not doing it right".

It is overkill if your just at home cooking for yourself like I am.

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Some follow-up:
I bought the Joules sous vide about two weeks ago. I've been using this for eggs, and have done chicken, stake and pork in it. I've learned a lot and am still dialing in meat recipes in it. My observations so far.

Using this to cook breakfast eggs is the best!

Raman-style eggs can be cooked in about 8 minutes. And the best part. Since this is controlled from a phone app, you can start heating the water without leaving your bed. When the water is ready you get a notification on the phone. Only then do you get up, get an egg or two out of the fridge and put it in for 8 minutes. That 8 minutes can then be used preparing side dishes. Only down-side is peeling the egg afterwards is a pain in the butt, compared to just scrambling the eggs.

I've been doing my own version of a healthy low-carb breakfast burrito. It tastes better than scrambled egg version and doesn't take much more time. (I just need a better way to peel the egg shells).

My first attempt at pork, chicken and steak were all really good. As good as anything without sous vide, but I can do better.


I've done two meals by starting it at work. The chick and pork, which I still need to dial in. While I like the idea of starting a meal from work, practically speaking you want it cooking for 6-8 hours, not 2 hours. And since I'm not completely controlling the start temp I've over cooked a little on first two tries. I'll look for longer slower cooking recipes to make that option work.

I also try getting a better cut of meat than what you get from Safeway.

Not I'm going to try shrimp, but my real goal is to eventually do a lobster recipe. Maybe something like this.

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/12/sous-vide-lobster-recipe.html

And who ever mention the "Food Labs" book, yep. I'm planning on getting that soon.



Oh.. And one more thing. We skydivers have the upper hand when getting the air out of these cooking bags. It's just a mini version of getting the air out of your parachute. :)

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Quote

I've been using this for eggs, and have done chicken, stake and pork in it.



I've found that when I cook stake I just can't get rid of that woody texture.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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