Helmet on for take off?

[JohnMitchell 14]

So 24 years ago there was a bad Twin Otter crash at Perris. 16 people died. The investigation found that loose, flying helmets caused many of the injuries. Since then seatbelt regs have been more enforced and we've been trying to have everyone fasten their helmet securely. But I still see many people, mostly newer jumpers, that are ignoring that advice/requirement.

What's your style and why?

[Pat007 0]

Mine's on and buckled before I board the plane and I nearly always keep it that way until I'm back on the ground. If things go wrong I doubt I'd remember or have time to put it back on and buckle it.

My Dad used to ask me if someone jumped off a bridge would I do that too? No, but if they jumped out of an airplane, that's a different question...

[monkycndo 0]

If it is not on their head strapped on, I ask them, "If this plane crashes on take off, where would the helmet do the most good?"

After a few seconds of thought, the helmet ends up on their head.

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[JohnMitchell 14]

monkycndo

If it is not on their head strapped on, I ask them, "If this plane crashes on take off, where would the helmet do the most good?"

After a few seconds of thought, the helmet ends up on their head.

When I was a new jumper, one of the old timers asked me "Don't you want to be awake for the flames?"

[wmw999 2,120]

The other takeoff thing I wonder about is seat belts. Most people seem to want them as loose as possible. Is there a reason for that other than immediate comfort and ease of putting them on? Again, in the event of a crash, I wonder how far they want it to before the seat belt stops them, or they slide out.

Or am I missing something here?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[JohnMitchell 14]

I hear ya on the seatbelts. I try to snug mine down (at least the ones that go around me). If you visualize what the crash forces are going to do, a loose seatbelt does little to reassure me. And when you're on the floor and it's just looped thru your harness? That's a lot of slack for slinging around.

[BIGUN 1,052]

JohnMitchell

So 24 years ago there was a bad Twin Otter crash at Perris. 16 people died. The investigation found that loose, flying helmets caused many of the injuries. Since then seatbelt regs have been more enforced and we've been trying to have everyone fasten their helmet securely. But I still see many people, mostly newer jumpers, that are ignoring that advice/requirement.

What's your style and why?

Well, if Mary [flyAngel2] is on the plane... everyone has the same style. On your head and fastened!!!

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[feuergnom 22]

my take on that goes along this line: if you board a plane you should be ready to jump any minute after takeoff -> all straps tightened, helmet (or whatever head protection you wear) on, seatbelt until 1000 ft/300 meters.

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[billvon 2,396]

>Helmet on for take off?

Normal helmet - on, visor open
Camera helmet - clipped onto chest strap

[nolhtairt 0]

Good to see 85% are doing the right thing. The other 15% are just doing themselves, and others on the load, a disservice.

[topdocker 0]

JohnMitchell

So 24 years ago there was a bad Twin Otter crash at Perris. 16 people died. The investigation found that loose, flying helmets caused many of the injuries. Since then seatbelt regs have been more enforced and we've been trying to have everyone fasten their helmet securely. But I still see many people, mostly newer jumpers, that are ignoring that advice/requirement.

What's your style and why?

That accident has a lot of stories come out of it. I have heard this one a lot and have looked for its origins, but no where have I found a report that says "loose flying helmets added to the injuries sustained." There are all sorts of reports on restraint systems (and lack there of) for the jumpers, but nothing noted about their equipment creating injuries.

Some of the camera helmets back in the day probably could have been lethal, but that was back when you they wore an entire VCR with 1/2 inch tape on a motorcycle helmet with 1/4 inch steel brackets and a bazooka ringsite.

I think the real question is "How much of a bitch fit does someone in the plane justified in throwing if someone doesn't secure their helmet?" I'v seen more than my share of red-faced yelling at some poor newb who has his helmet in his hand when the plane rolls.

24 years later: is the pilot training better? Is fuel handling better? Are the restraint systems better? Are we just luckier?

top

PS I am ambivalent about on or off or attached for other people.

Jump more, post less!

[grimmie 173]

Not wearing your helmet on take off is a bad idea. And those that clip a regular non video/still set up helmet to their seat belt is a very, very bad idea. I have been in a couple of situations over the years where we had to return to land due to an in flight emergency or wind/dust devil scratching the flight.

The first thing the couple of jumpers did, with helmets attached to a seat belt did was...take their seat belt off to get their helmet on. If the spinny things stop and you unbuckle to get your lid, you and your helmet will become a missile at impact or hard landing. And if you are returning to the DZ in a full jump plane, the landing most likely will be brisk and hard.

None of us are too cool to not buckle up the brain buckets on take off for a thousand feet or so. IMHO.

[DJL 232]

Yes. You'll feel really fucking stupid if the plane bounces off the runway and your scalp gets ripped off and your helmet was sitting there clipped to your chest strap. You'll feel even dumber with a crushed sternum caused by your helmet attached to your chest strap.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[JohnMitchell 14]

topdocker

Some of the camera helmets back in the day probably could have been lethal, but that was back when you they wore an entire VCR with 1/2 inch tape on a motorcycle helmet with 1/4 inch steel brackets and a bazooka ringsite.

Yeah, but a G3 with a GoPro or two still won't be pleasant.

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I think the real question is "How much of a bitch fit does someone in the plane justified in throwing if someone doesn't secure their helmet?" I'v seen more than my share of red-faced yelling at some poor newb who has his helmet in his hand when the plane rolls.

People who yell at noobs are jackasses. A quiet, smiling reminder is all that is needed. Now, if it's an experienced jumper who repeatedly and willfully defies local safety procedures, that's time for a little peer pressure.

Quote

24 years later: is the pilot training better? Is fuel handling better? Are the restraint systems better? Are we just luckier?

The laws of physics haven't changed. Maybe it's safer, but it sure ain't perfect yet.

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PS I am ambivalent about on or off or attached for other people

If there's a safety rule, I'd just as soon have everyone follow it, esp. if it possibly impinges on the safety of others.
Thanks for the reply.

[JohnMitchell 14]

grimmie

The first thing the couple of jumpers did, with helmets attached to a seat belt did was...take their seat belt off to get their helmet on.

Real bad time to be doing that $hit.

[Trafficdiver 8]

occasionally I won't wear a helmet for a HNP or helicopter jump but other than that it's always on and strapped.

[NewGuy2005 51]

billvon

>Helmet on for take off?

Normal helmet - on, visor open
Camera helmet - clipped onto chest strap

Can you elaborate on this?

[riggerrob 558]

Back in the day .... camera helmets were heavy, Homebuilt contraptions. They started with Fiberglas motorcycle helmets with a variety of sheet metal contraptions screwed, riveted, bolted, duct-taped, etc. on to contain cameras that were longer than the helmets. Some of them weighed 20 pounds (10 kg) and could kill if they flew the length of the cabin!
After the Perris crash (1992), DZs changed rules to insist that helmets be worn during take-off to reduce risk of secondary injuries. A few DZs installed helmet lanyards - near the door. Helmet lanyards w ere long enough to allow videographers to film take-offs, but too short to allow heavy cameras to flail the entire length of the cabin.

As for leaving helmets loose during take-off .... you will end up with the brain you deserve.
During the 2008 King Air crash, I suffered a concussion and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. 8 years later I struggle with anger, concentration, depression, etc. My buddy JP was only wearing a leather frappe hat and suffered brain injuries so severe that he will never be half the man he used to be.

[riggerrob 558]

If an experience jumper routinely ignores a local safety procedure, either he is "too cool for school" or he suffers from "generational stagnation."
"Too cool for school" means that he is the most important person on the load and he does not care if he sets a bad example for young skydivers.

"Generational stagnation" means that he learned everything he needed to know decades ago. His brain is full, so please don't waste your time telling him anything new.
Hah!

For example, I recently listened to a lawyer beak-off about seat-belts for skydivers ... He repeatedly said: "not enough data" while ignoring recent forced-landings in New Jersey, Switzerland, Italy, Poland and Dubai.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

On & fastened before I get on the plane (maybe not if we are getting into the 182 before engine start).
I will take it off and usually set it on my knee after "seat belts off", but back on & fastened anytime people are getting out (low passes for H&Ps).
It's an open face & I can have it on and buckled in about 3 seconds if needed.

I can't understand how or why people would use the seat belt to secure it. If you don't want it on your head, strap it to your chest strap.
And how would they do that so that the SB had to be unbuckled to release the helmet? Unless it's a full face with the visor up & they have the belt through the "eye hole" part.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Xistn 0]

I'm a little confused here on this helmet ruling

firstly i am all for it, however...looking at skydiving helmets, I see no safety measures in reference to the building materials (i'll note right now that awesome looking carbon fibre helmet is more dangerous than you think considering carbon splinters upon substantial impact), Ie. Most are either a hard material of sort (carbon or abs, plastic) with a comfort lining, no foam to absorb / dissipate impact.. and no safety rating (mind you what is that even to skydiving, or how)
now looking at the below (please note i am referring to Australian standards so apologies)

in Australia the following all have and must pass a safety standard in order to be able to be sold to the public.
skateboard helmets
snow sport helmets
motorcycling helmets

now I gather helmet is not going to save my head in the unlikely event of no opening and impact (der i hear you say)
when looking at skydiving helmets i see that having nothing to absorb the energy from an impact and dissipating it (either through foam or that awesome energy absorbing plastics) is within itself basically a pretty piece of plastic atop of your head nothing more.

so my question is.. if we must adon a helmet within the aircraft... why is the safety of said requirement not setting a minimum safety rating?

in reference to visibility of full face motorcycling helmets and causing neck / spine injuries in the event of an accident, if this being the reason why these are not being used more so, causes me to shake my head in dismay for hearsay information.

anyhow, not here to argue or to feed keyboard warriors.

but if a ruling is to wear a helmet in a plane or for jumping (i realise after a certain license level they're not standard requirements) lets actually adon helmets with a safety standard to absorb /disburse impact energy.

cheers :)

"Don't let the fear of what could happen, make nothing happen."

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Its far less about the helmet being effective protection for the wearer (I agree that it really isn't) and more about making sure the helmet is secured.

In the event of a crash, a helmet securely on the head may or may not do much to protect the person wearing it.

But if its simply being held in someone's hand (or sitting on their knee like I do during normal climb), then if the plane crashes, that loose helmet will fly around in the cabin, potentially causing injury.

In other words, I don't really care if the helmet protects your head or not, I just don't want it bouncing off of my head.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[grimmie 173]

I hear this argument all the time about skydive helmets. "They aren't rated and meet no standards."

After patching up a LOT of seriously wrecked skydivers over the past 26 years, here is my non scientific, personal observation take on helmets.

I have seen helmets take a huge impact with the ground. Forces not unlike a motorcycle crash. A helmet offers you a great deal of protection, both in and out of the plane. They have saved many jumpers that have been involved in some serious contact with the earth. In a crash they will offer you FAR greater protection on than off.

[Xistn 0]

sorry confusing message, are you saying a skydiving helmet is superior to a motorcycling helmet?

"Don't let the fear of what could happen, make nothing happen."

[grimmie 173]

No. I am saying that even though skydive helmets aren't certified by anyone, however they still do a pretty good job in the event of a mishap.