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Rstanley0312

Night jump questions......

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is it still a requirement for D?

What a strange requirement to have to do 2 night jumps for your d licence.

What would one benefit from that experience, safety wise?

It's not like you ever going to jump out of something and suddenly discover that the sun has set long ago...

:S



You are going to be on sunset loads and some may be getting quite dark especially in places where nearby mountains make actual sunset earlier than the legal sunset.

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First, I hope you've jumped out a C-130 before. I had to see a low timer do his first night jump AND first 130 jump at the same time.

Enough of that.

In reading this thread it occured to me that I had done a whole lot more night jumps than I usually say. Mainly because in my mind I don't count night demos into a football game as a night jump. Night jumps at the DZ.. oh about 10 or so. Another 20 or 30 night jumps into football fields.

Why don't they count in my head? Because spotting isn't an issue. Other than making sure you've got the right football field. And because your landing in light, not night.

Oh well, have fun.

And yes I think both night AND water jumps should be required. If you've done your night jumps it's not an issue with that twilight last load. Water jumps? Just plane fun and water demos are fun two. And I've been open over a lake that I didn't think I'd clear. Yes some other things were done wrong first but shit happens.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Hard to keep enough people from drinking after sunset to get a load together, which makes it even more special when you actually get to do one.



I will never forget the generosity of three of my friends who were willing to delay the after-sunset beer so that I could get my night 4-stack patch. That's when you learn who your friends are.
"For you see, an airplane is an airplane. A landing area is a landing area. But a dropzone... a dropzone is the people."

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First, I hope you've jumped out a C-130 before. I had to see a low timer do his first night jump AND first 130 jump at the same time.

Enough of that.

In reading this thread it occured to me that I had done a whole lot more night jumps than I usually say. Mainly because in my mind I don't count night demos into a football game as a night jump. Night jumps at the DZ.. oh about 10 or so. Another 20 or 30 night jumps into football fields.

Why don't they count in my head? Because spotting isn't an issue. Other than making sure you've got the right football field. And because your landing in light, not night.

Oh well, have fun.

And yes I think both night AND water jumps should be required. If you've done your night jumps it's not an issue with that twilight last load. Water jumps? Just plane fun and water demos are fun two. And I've been open over a lake that I didn't think I'd clear. Yes some other things were done wrong first but shit happens.



No 130 jumps but I am doing 2 during the day prior to the night jump out of the aircraft. If I am comfortable then I will do the night jump if I am not then I will wait for the jump season and do it out of a different aircraft.
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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Don't push yourself and be tired for the night jump.

They really aren't a big deal if the spot is good and the landing site is easily found. But the C-130 spot has the potential for being not quite as good as a Cessna spot.:) Or could be great.

Landing out at night adds a lot of risk. Can't see the poles let alone the wires. Best bet then is the largest darkest area that's not a forest. Around here it would be a farmer's field.

Again, have fun.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Don't push yourself and be tired for the night jump.

They really aren't a big deal if the spot is good and the landing site is easily found. But the C-130 spot has the potential for being not quite as good as a Cessna spot.:) Or could be great.

Landing out at night adds a lot of risk. Can't see the poles let alone the wires. Best bet then is the largest darkest area that's not a forest. Around here it would be a farmer's field.

Again, have fun.



Thanks Terry! I understand the LZ is 1 mile + by 1mile+ and the whle thing is being organized by the military at Ft. Knox. I also like that one of my coach course instructors will be there with me. :)
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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Thanks Terry! I understand the LZ is 1 mile + by 1mile+ and the whle thing is being organized by the military at Ft. Knox. I also like that one of my coach course instructors will be there with me. :)



I hope you don't miss it by a mile :P.
"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

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What a strange requirement to have to do 2 night jumps for your d licence.



That's what I thought, too. Maybe they felt they had to justify the "Master Skydiver" label they put on the D license.

That always embarrassed me. I didn't feel that I was a master skydiver then and I don't now.



The "Master skydiver" label was eliminated years ago.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>was it intended to prepare you for an "accidental" night jump?

It:

prepares you for an inadvertent after-sunset jump



Yep, those unexpected sunsets creep up on D licensees, but for some reason not on A licensees.

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prepares you for jumping in limited visibility conditions




Yep, they also creep up on D licensees but not others.

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prepares you for actual night jumps



So they aren't "actual night jumps"? I thought mine were pretty actual.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>Yep, those unexpected sunsets creep up on D licensees, but for
>some reason not on A licensees.

They do indeed. You're not going to find many A licensees on a state record attempt that has one jump to go on the last day.

But in any case, most people accept that A licensees are not as experienced and cannot do the same things (take the same risks, compete in the same competitions, get the same instructional ratings) as D license holders.

>So they aren't "actual night jumps"? I thought mine were pretty actual.

Good for you!

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...Yep, those unexpected sunsets creep up on D licensees, but for some reason not on A licensees..



Holy Mackeral, and pass the potatos!

:D:D:D
:D:D:D
:D:D:D

Damn! I wish I had thought of that...good one, John!
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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The "Master skydiver" label was eliminated years ago.



So, how's this everyone?

You want to be a well-rounded skydiver? You want something that shows the world a thing or two?

Bring back the Master license and make the requirements:
X night jumps
X water jumps
X belly Fly
X freefly
X wingsuit
X skyboard
X B.A.S.E.
X AFF
X TI

So what does a D currently buy you?
- an opportunity to shoot for the Pro rating.
- nothing else unless you count the ego that makes you feel good about having the highest available license.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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>Yep, those unexpected sunsets creep up on D licensees, but for
>some reason not on A licensees.

They do indeed. You're not going to find many A licensees on a state record attempt that has one jump to go on the last day.



Is that one of those "strawman" things?
I'll be Capt. Obvious here and say, "You're not going to find many A licensees on ANY state record attempt."
:|
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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[Reply]Yep, those unexpected sunsets creep up on D icensees, but for some reason not on A licensees.



We don't do water training before our first jumps. We can't fit all training in at one time. I think there is an assumption that most skydivers that keep jumping get their licences. B is all that's required for night jumps. Over the next 450 jumps or so, most skydivers will find the opportunity to make a couple night jumps under controlled circumstances to prepare for doing it in less controlled circumstances. Sure, there could be as many a-licenced jumpers on the plane that climbs a bit too slow on the sunset load. But I'd think that statistically, d-licenced jumpers are more likely to find themselves in that situation at some point in their jumping career... because they have jumped more.

Dave

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back on topic:
make shure the moon is up when it's jumping time. my nightdives where in a full-moon night - only problem: the moon went up at 1 in the morning, two hours after we finished jumping :S:D
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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Good point! Moon Rise is at 5:39 p.m. and Moon Set is at 7:16 a.m.

I think we are good with that.

The weather forecast is looking a little bleak at this point. I think clouds and cold may be the biggest factor at this point.
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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back on topic:
make shure the moon is up when it's jumping time. my nightdives where in a full-moon night - only problem: the moon went up at 1 in the morning, two hours after we finished jumping :S:D



Are you saying the full moonrise was at 1am? If that's the case, your astrophysics are different than mine... back on the 'ol family farm, our full moon rose right around sunset and was full overhead at midnight.

Then again, I do seem to recall seeing a full moon or two right in the landing area on some night jumps. ;)
Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

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Dave, glad you commented on the strobe...it's amazing how many think that a glow stick suffices...when i get out in the dark, i want to be marked as a plane and anyone in the sky will maintain an "avoidance" that a glow stick is not going to give you. And for those that want to argue the point, watch night jumps and tell me how well you can see a glow stick when a jumper is only at 1000 ft....you can't. I've been on the ground and watched and you can't see a glow stick.

Have fun, be safe, keep your head on a swivel and be prepared to flare like you've never flared before because the ground will come up all of the sudden.

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yes, the moonrise varies - i bet there's a site out there with exact times for every place in the world - so for my next night jump i'll double and triple check. otoh: it can't be any darker than the night i mentioned :P
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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Good point! Moon Rise is at 5:39 p.m. and Moon Set is at 7:16 a.m.

I think we are good with that.

The weather forecast is looking a little bleak at this point. I think clouds and cold may be the biggest factor at this point.



Of course Friday looks bad right now and Saturday look great. :( It is early in the week so a lot can change. I'm sure the cold will stick around though. [:/]
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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yes, the moonrise varies - i bet there's a site out there with exact times for every place in the world - so for my next night jump i'll double and triple check. otoh: it can't be any darker than the night i mentioned :P



I use this site.
http://www.heavens-above.com

I registered so that I only had to set my observing location once (you can set more than one)

Gives me lots of information
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

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So, how's this everyone?

You want to be a well-rounded skydiver? You want something that shows the world a thing or two?

Bring back the Master license and make the requirements:
X night jumps
X water jumps
X belly Fly
X freefly
X wingsuit
X skyboard
X B.A.S.E. BASE is not skydiving
X AFF
X TI
X Level 2 Demos



Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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So, how's this everyone?

You want to be a well-rounded skydiver? You want something that shows the world a thing or two?

Bring back the Master license and make the requirements:
X night jumps
X water jumps
X belly Fly
X freefly
X wingsuit
X skyboard
X B.A.S.E. BASE is not skydiving
X AFF
X TI
X Level 2 Demos



Sparky



Wouldnt you have to have this 'Master Skydiver License' prior to a Pro rating?
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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