flyuke 0 #1 July 8, 2004 What is the toughest reserves around? How good are the Smart resrves from South Africa? I am looking at PD, Techno (PDF) and smart. Any experience of landing any of these? PD is an old design, isn't it? Techno looks tough and newer--how does it land? No idea about smart--marketed as there are no tougher reserves and great lift too! What would you riggers buy for yourselves if you were freeflyers?(possible high speed premature dep. of resrve) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 July 8, 2004 PD. The design is only a few years old and its built like a tank. I have a PD, my girlfriend has a PD, I perfer packing PD reserves over some of the other ones out there and they land quite well too.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #3 July 8, 2004 PD. Ever hear of one blowing up/coming apart? Can't say that for a lot of other reserves. Flight Concepts' reserrves are built very tough also, but the penalty is a very large pack volume. PD's are very strong without a large pack volume penalty. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 26 #4 July 8, 2004 QuotePD's are very strong without a large pack volume penalty. ? Isnt their cub in. measurement significantly higher then similar sized reserve most of the others brands?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #5 July 8, 2004 QuoteIsnt their cub in. measurement significantly higher then similar sized reserve most of the others brands? Their pack volume is similar ro other reserves of the same sq. footage. Not all reserves are measured the same. For example, a Micro-Raven 109-M is smaller than a PD-106R. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #6 July 8, 2004 I have spoken to people who have landed both Techno and PD reserves and all have said that although there was nothing bad about the PD, the Techno was nicer to fly and land. However when I was choosing a reserve to go in my new rig, I went with PD because from everything I’ve seen and read of it, the PD reserve is the strongest reserve out there. Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EAerodyne 0 #7 July 8, 2004 Hey Austin, The Smart Reserve is not an old reserve. It was designed mid 2002 and was TSO'd Dec 17 2002. The techno, was designed in 1994 by Parachutes de France It was first displayed at the PIA symposium in 1995. The Smart is one of the first and only reserves to hold a TSO C23d on all sizes. and comes in in sizes from 99 - 250 Sqare feet. The 250 happens to be one of the largest sport reserves in the market place with this TSO approval as well. Although built by our manufacturing facility in South Africa it is designed and the TSO is held by our US head office in Tampa FL. The Techno reserve is built on the island of Mauritius in the Indian Ocean and the PD reserve is built in Honduras, Central America. I notice from your profile, that you are in the UK, and I can see what I can do to organize a demo canopy for you to evaluate at your convenience. Please feel free to email me personally to take care of your request should you choose to take me up on that offer. The Smart reserve is a strong and reliable reserve, built tough enough for your skydiving needs. Based on that fact this response is to your questions posted I will not open the forum to discuss who is better or worse. PD is a great reserve too. They are strong, well known and reliable, depending on what size reserve you are looking at you may not be getting a PD reserve with the latest C23d as only a portion of their reserves are TSO'd under that category. Please feel free to contact me personally or any of our staff and we'd be happy to answer any further questions. kind regards and blue skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 601 #8 July 8, 2004 My Amigo 172 is the strongest reserve - because it has 1,000 pound Spectra suspension lines - and the rest of you are poofters. Hah! Hah! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #9 July 8, 2004 Nope, my 28' C-9 is the strongest! (for the youngsters this is a pilot round military canopy) But it's in my old B-9 pilot rig sitting on a shelf, not on by back. Not much help there.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #10 July 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteIsnt their cub in. measurement significantly higher then similar sized reserve most of the others brands? Their pack volume is similar ro other reserves of the same sq. footage. Not all reserves are measured the same. For example, a Micro-Raven 109-M is smaller than a PD-106R. QuoteI'm confused. Are you saying smaller in square footage or cubic inches. Cause if it's cu/in., then wouldn't Remster's point be valid? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #11 July 8, 2004 QuoteI'm confused. Are you saying smaller in square footage or cubic inches. Cause if it's cu/in., then wouldn't Remster's point be valid? Sq. Footage. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #12 July 8, 2004 QuoteThey are strong, well known and reliable, depending on what size reserve you are looking at you may not be getting a PD reserve with the latest C23d as only a portion of their reserves are TSO'd under that category. That is an unfair jab at PD. The PDR's are all the same, but when they added newer sizes, they TSO standards had been updated. So if the new ones passed TSO C23D, stands to reason the older sizes would too. If the Smart had metal slider stops and 6 of them instead of 4, I would recommend it as a good reserve. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EAerodyne 0 #13 July 8, 2004 Hi Derek, having worked for PD for 15 years in their marketing dept and eventually being the marketing manager and having been part of the company when it did release the smaller reserves I perhaps have some knowledge that you may not. PD builds tough reserves no doubt about it, that doesn't mean that the older reserves would have passed the C23d requirements, it does however mean that they passed the strictest of TSO requirements available at the time. It wasn't a unfair jab at PD. It was an informative comment to a prospective buyer looking for good information. PD builds great canopies. Their reserves are the most tried and tested in the market place today and I have no qualms about saying that. Plastic slider stops do not necessarily mean they are poor in quality. Plastics have evolved dramatically over the last 20 years and there are products used on space craft today that are no longer metal as they are not as tough or as durable as plastic. Metal can also have a sharp edge which if not tumbled and inspected properly can result in the stop cutting into the fabric and reinforcing housing it. 6 stops do not make it more or less capable, the object of the slider stop remains the same. If a design, requires 6 stops then that is all good, however if it only requires 4 and still passes the TSO I see no reason to add pack volume and more cost to manufacturing which is then passed on to you the customer. I'd be happy to discuss this with you off line if you'd like. Please feel free to contact me if you want to chat more about it. Kind Regards Bushman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #14 July 8, 2004 QuoteThat is an unfair jab at PD. HA! QuoteFor example, a Micro-Raven 109-M is smaller than a PD-106R. And that is an unfair jab at PA without explaning that PD chose not to measure using the accepted (at the time) PIA standard. 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #15 July 8, 2004 QuoteAnd that is an unfair jab at PA without explaning that PD chose not to measure using the accepted (at the time) PIA standard. I wasn't trying to take a jab at PA, just trying to explain that PD's pack volume isn't much more per sq. ft. than any other reserve. As for the Smart, that is only my opinion, for what it is worth.Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #16 July 8, 2004 I' know you weren't, I was just having a bit of fun tweaking your nose...... I don't think the "Bushman" had any intention of slaming PD either. Reserves I have experience with I'd currently feel comfortable putting on my back? Smart PDR R-MAX In no particular order.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #17 July 8, 2004 QuoteHey Austin, The Smart Reserve is not an old reserve. It was designed mid 2002 and was TSO'd Dec 17 2002. The techno, was designed in 1994 by Parachutes de France It was first displayed at the PIA symposium in 1995. The Smart is one of the first and only reserves to hold a TSO C23d on all sizes. and comes in in sizes from 99 - 250 Sqare feet. The 250 happens to be one of the largest sport reserves in the market place with this TSO approval as well. Although built by our manufacturing facility in South Africa it is designed and the TSO is held by our US head office in Tampa FL. The Techno reserve is built on the island of Mauritius in the Indian Ocean and the PD reserve is built in Honduras, Central America. I notice from your profile, that you are in the UK, and I can see what I can do to organize a demo canopy for you to evaluate at your convenience. Please feel free to email me personally to take care of your request should you choose to take me up on that offer. The Smart reserve is a strong and reliable reserve, built tough enough for your skydiving needs. Based on that fact this response is to your questions posted I will not open the forum to discuss who is better or worse. PD is a great reserve too. They are strong, well known and reliable, depending on what size reserve you are looking at you may not be getting a PD reserve with the latest C23d as only a portion of their reserves are TSO'd under that category. Please feel free to contact me personally or any of our staff and we'd be happy to answer any further questions. kind regards and blue skies I have had the pleasure of packing a couple of these and I like them very much! I think they pack as small or smaller than comparable canopies (IMHO)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #18 July 8, 2004 QuoteMy Amigo 172 is the strongest reserve - because it has 1,000 pound Spectra suspension lines - and the rest of you are poofters. Hah! Hah! Hah! Rob, I'll pass that along to Gary, he will be tickled. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #19 July 8, 2004 QuoteAlthough built by our manufacturing facility in South Africa it is designed and the TSO is held by our US head office in Tampa FL Would that facility happen to be the same one that manufactured the Tempo for PISA? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EAerodyne 0 #20 July 8, 2004 Hi Sparky, yes that is the same facility, although when brought under the Aerodyne Umbrella, it was significantly updated. Aerodyne Research, (our Tampa office) has a management role in the operations of that facility to make sure it meets with our quality & manufacturing standards as well as utilizing the fabrics and raw materials chosen by our Tampa office. Aerodyne Systems, formerly PISA (Parachute Industries of South Africa) Is a large facility situated North of Durban South Africa and has 30 years of experience in building parachute equipment, however the majority of that was and still is for military use. Hope this answers your questions regards Bushman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #21 July 8, 2004 Yes it does Ed, Thanks. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Plucky 0 #22 July 9, 2004 I have personally seen the video, directly after the jump, where two friends of mine did a head-down jump a few years back, and one "docked" on the other's reserve handle The resulting opening was, to put it mildly, quick. Frame by frame of the opening took up maybe three frames on an old hi-8 video. The reserve was perfectly fine after that, although the jumper had a few bruises and cracked ribs. It was a Decellerator 150 from Chute Shop, SA (now called parachute systems I think). Guess which reserve I have! - Citizen of the World - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #23 July 9, 2004 QuoteMy Amigo 172 is the strongest reserve - because it has 1,000 pound Spectra suspension lines - and the rest of you are poofters. I thought you were serious there until I saw who you were...=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 137 #24 July 9, 2004 QuoteI have personally seen the video, directly after the jump, where two friends of mine did a head-down jump a few years back, and one "docked" on the other's reserve handle have a look at videos/head down reserve, if I recall well it's a Tempo, and it served at least twice after that and still is in a good shape.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlindBrick 0 #25 July 13, 2004 I'm partial to my R-Max. As a rigger, I got to inspect each line and stitch before packing itaway, and it is solid. Being a newer canopy, it's built under 23D and placarded to 317 lbs at 150 kts(172 mph), though I've heard that its been successfully tested at even greater loads/speeds. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Hooknswoop 19 #11 July 8, 2004 QuoteI'm confused. Are you saying smaller in square footage or cubic inches. Cause if it's cu/in., then wouldn't Remster's point be valid? Sq. Footage. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #12 July 8, 2004 QuoteThey are strong, well known and reliable, depending on what size reserve you are looking at you may not be getting a PD reserve with the latest C23d as only a portion of their reserves are TSO'd under that category. That is an unfair jab at PD. The PDR's are all the same, but when they added newer sizes, they TSO standards had been updated. So if the new ones passed TSO C23D, stands to reason the older sizes would too. If the Smart had metal slider stops and 6 of them instead of 4, I would recommend it as a good reserve. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EAerodyne 0 #13 July 8, 2004 Hi Derek, having worked for PD for 15 years in their marketing dept and eventually being the marketing manager and having been part of the company when it did release the smaller reserves I perhaps have some knowledge that you may not. PD builds tough reserves no doubt about it, that doesn't mean that the older reserves would have passed the C23d requirements, it does however mean that they passed the strictest of TSO requirements available at the time. It wasn't a unfair jab at PD. It was an informative comment to a prospective buyer looking for good information. PD builds great canopies. Their reserves are the most tried and tested in the market place today and I have no qualms about saying that. Plastic slider stops do not necessarily mean they are poor in quality. Plastics have evolved dramatically over the last 20 years and there are products used on space craft today that are no longer metal as they are not as tough or as durable as plastic. Metal can also have a sharp edge which if not tumbled and inspected properly can result in the stop cutting into the fabric and reinforcing housing it. 6 stops do not make it more or less capable, the object of the slider stop remains the same. If a design, requires 6 stops then that is all good, however if it only requires 4 and still passes the TSO I see no reason to add pack volume and more cost to manufacturing which is then passed on to you the customer. I'd be happy to discuss this with you off line if you'd like. Please feel free to contact me if you want to chat more about it. Kind Regards Bushman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #14 July 8, 2004 QuoteThat is an unfair jab at PD. HA! QuoteFor example, a Micro-Raven 109-M is smaller than a PD-106R. And that is an unfair jab at PA without explaning that PD chose not to measure using the accepted (at the time) PIA standard. 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #15 July 8, 2004 QuoteAnd that is an unfair jab at PA without explaning that PD chose not to measure using the accepted (at the time) PIA standard. I wasn't trying to take a jab at PA, just trying to explain that PD's pack volume isn't much more per sq. ft. than any other reserve. As for the Smart, that is only my opinion, for what it is worth.Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 July 8, 2004 I' know you weren't, I was just having a bit of fun tweaking your nose...... I don't think the "Bushman" had any intention of slaming PD either. Reserves I have experience with I'd currently feel comfortable putting on my back? Smart PDR R-MAX In no particular order.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #17 July 8, 2004 QuoteHey Austin, The Smart Reserve is not an old reserve. It was designed mid 2002 and was TSO'd Dec 17 2002. The techno, was designed in 1994 by Parachutes de France It was first displayed at the PIA symposium in 1995. The Smart is one of the first and only reserves to hold a TSO C23d on all sizes. and comes in in sizes from 99 - 250 Sqare feet. The 250 happens to be one of the largest sport reserves in the market place with this TSO approval as well. Although built by our manufacturing facility in South Africa it is designed and the TSO is held by our US head office in Tampa FL. The Techno reserve is built on the island of Mauritius in the Indian Ocean and the PD reserve is built in Honduras, Central America. I notice from your profile, that you are in the UK, and I can see what I can do to organize a demo canopy for you to evaluate at your convenience. Please feel free to email me personally to take care of your request should you choose to take me up on that offer. The Smart reserve is a strong and reliable reserve, built tough enough for your skydiving needs. Based on that fact this response is to your questions posted I will not open the forum to discuss who is better or worse. PD is a great reserve too. They are strong, well known and reliable, depending on what size reserve you are looking at you may not be getting a PD reserve with the latest C23d as only a portion of their reserves are TSO'd under that category. Please feel free to contact me personally or any of our staff and we'd be happy to answer any further questions. kind regards and blue skies I have had the pleasure of packing a couple of these and I like them very much! I think they pack as small or smaller than comparable canopies (IMHO)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #18 July 8, 2004 QuoteMy Amigo 172 is the strongest reserve - because it has 1,000 pound Spectra suspension lines - and the rest of you are poofters. Hah! Hah! Hah! Rob, I'll pass that along to Gary, he will be tickled. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #19 July 8, 2004 QuoteAlthough built by our manufacturing facility in South Africa it is designed and the TSO is held by our US head office in Tampa FL Would that facility happen to be the same one that manufactured the Tempo for PISA? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EAerodyne 0 #20 July 8, 2004 Hi Sparky, yes that is the same facility, although when brought under the Aerodyne Umbrella, it was significantly updated. Aerodyne Research, (our Tampa office) has a management role in the operations of that facility to make sure it meets with our quality & manufacturing standards as well as utilizing the fabrics and raw materials chosen by our Tampa office. Aerodyne Systems, formerly PISA (Parachute Industries of South Africa) Is a large facility situated North of Durban South Africa and has 30 years of experience in building parachute equipment, however the majority of that was and still is for military use. Hope this answers your questions regards Bushman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #21 July 8, 2004 Yes it does Ed, Thanks. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plucky 0 #22 July 9, 2004 I have personally seen the video, directly after the jump, where two friends of mine did a head-down jump a few years back, and one "docked" on the other's reserve handle The resulting opening was, to put it mildly, quick. Frame by frame of the opening took up maybe three frames on an old hi-8 video. The reserve was perfectly fine after that, although the jumper had a few bruises and cracked ribs. It was a Decellerator 150 from Chute Shop, SA (now called parachute systems I think). Guess which reserve I have! - Citizen of the World - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #23 July 9, 2004 QuoteMy Amigo 172 is the strongest reserve - because it has 1,000 pound Spectra suspension lines - and the rest of you are poofters. I thought you were serious there until I saw who you were...=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #24 July 9, 2004 QuoteI have personally seen the video, directly after the jump, where two friends of mine did a head-down jump a few years back, and one "docked" on the other's reserve handle have a look at videos/head down reserve, if I recall well it's a Tempo, and it served at least twice after that and still is in a good shape.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #25 July 13, 2004 I'm partial to my R-Max. As a rigger, I got to inspect each line and stitch before packing itaway, and it is solid. Being a newer canopy, it's built under 23D and placarded to 317 lbs at 150 kts(172 mph), though I've heard that its been successfully tested at even greater loads/speeds. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
