billvon 2,396 #1 June 30, 2004 I am in the process of relining a Safire 1 129, and before I cut off the old lines I compared the length of the new lineset to the old one. The new lines were between 0 and 3 inches _shorter_ than the current Vectran lines; opposite of what I would have expected with Spectra. The outer lines were about the same length; it was the center lines that had the new lines significantly shorter than the old ones. Has anyone seen how Vectran behaves with wear? Might you actually see that sort of elongation? (BTW I have email into the mfr. to see if there was a trim change or anything.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #2 June 30, 2004 Hmmm....Derek's vectran lines on his VX with LOTS of jumps were the same length as spec. I wonder if they either sent you the wrong lineset or the lineset for a safire2?Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #3 June 30, 2004 You probably got the Safire2 line trim, which is different than the 1's trim. I haven't ever seen any type of canopy lines elongate over time. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #4 June 30, 2004 >I wonder if they either sent you the wrong lineset or the lineset for a safire2? That's what I'm thinking. Not that that would be bad, if the lineset is the only difference between the 1 and the 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #5 June 30, 2004 QuoteThat's what I'm thinking. Not that that would be bad, if the lineset is the only difference between the 1 and the 2. Line set and how they are measured are the only differences. Have a '1' and want a '2'? Get a re-line and re-mark the size as 7% smaller. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #6 June 30, 2004 Icarus did it! Upgradeable canopies! Get the new Safire "Service Pack 1" now to update your canopy to Version 2! The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #7 July 1, 2004 A Safire I and and a Safire II are totally different. The line sets are not even similar! Derek, I do not know where you came up with the 7%....!! If you guys have any questions, please call! I need to dispell this here and now before someone actually thinks that they can put a Safire II lineset on a Safire I and order the same. This is where mis-information could kill someone!!!! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service "The Icarus Service Center"Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #8 July 1, 2004 QuoteDerek, I do not know where you came up with the 7%....!! Simon Mundel of Icarus canopies. QuoteI need to dispell this here and now before someone actually thinks that they can put a Safire II lineset on a Safire I and order the same. This is where mis-information could kill someone!!!! That information came from Icarus, from Simon Mundel. So if you feel that the information is incorrect, you should call Icarus. BTW- did you ever get that official FAA ruling? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 July 1, 2004 QuoteA Safire I and and a Safire II are totally different. The line sets are not even similar! Really?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #10 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteDerek, I do not know where you came up with the 7%....!! Simon Mundel of Icarus canopies.Quote Simon would not make that kind of mistake! He probably was refering to the size difference that Precision started with the Safire I's that they were manufacturing. QuoteThat information came from Icarus, from Simon Mundel. So if you feel that the information is incorrect, you should call Icarus. I do not feel that it is incorrect... I know for fact that it is ... I do have the files for the canopies in front of me! QuoteBTW- did you ever get that official FAA ruling? Not yet ... Have you pursued it any further? MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jmfreefly 0 #11 July 1, 2004 QuoteI haven't ever seen any type of canopy lines elongate over time I -believe- that HMA does show some elongation over time. My buddy had one of the first Xaos 21s, and when he did his reline, he found that the lineset (HMA) had stretched (or I guess they changed the spec..). Last Easter at CSS, I was chatting with Beezy (HiPer), and I believe (if I remember through my fog) he confirmed that the HMA does stretch some towards the end of its useful life. But don't quote me/him on that, I may have misunderstood the discussion. j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #12 July 1, 2004 QuoteSimon would not make that kind of mistake! Um, well, he did. QuoteNot yet ... Have you pursued it any further? I never recieved the information fom you which office you contacted for the official FAA interpritation of the FAR. I go the e-mail address of an FAA inspector and sent him an e-mail, but he didn't reply and has apparently retired. I sent the FAA an e-mail asking which office I need to contact for an official ruling and didn't recieve a reply. I called and left a message, after being directed around to 3 different people and my call wasn't returned. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #13 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteA Safire I and and a Safire II are totally different. The line sets are not even similar! Really? Yep! Really... The ribs are the major difference and their placement. The inside 6 (A5,A4,and A3)load bearing are almost the same with the outside two being smaller in profile(on the Safire Two). The Safire I has more of a "gullwing" design. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,396 #14 July 1, 2004 >Have a '1' and want a '2'? Get a re-line and re-mark the size as 7% smaller. I just installed the line set as-is after talking to Mel. Only mod I made was to the brake lines; I tried to follow your changes by shortening the inside two brake lines the proportionate amount. (Also lowered the cats-eye the same distance so as to not affect overall stowed line length.) It will be interesting to see how it flies. The next canopy I'm getting will be a Nitro/Nitron. I'm sick of having to bartack all these lines. (or to be more accurate, sick of sending Amy down to Otay to bartack lines.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beezyshaw 0 #15 July 5, 2004 Vectran does elongate over the life of a lineset, typically about an inch. But it seems to do so fairly evenly, which keeps the overall trim at a very acceptable level. HMA, or Technora, that we use on our canopies seems to elongate just a little bit, much less than vectran does. Both of these fibers keep their trim very nicely compared to spectra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jmfreefly 0 #11 July 1, 2004 QuoteI haven't ever seen any type of canopy lines elongate over time I -believe- that HMA does show some elongation over time. My buddy had one of the first Xaos 21s, and when he did his reline, he found that the lineset (HMA) had stretched (or I guess they changed the spec..). Last Easter at CSS, I was chatting with Beezy (HiPer), and I believe (if I remember through my fog) he confirmed that the HMA does stretch some towards the end of its useful life. But don't quote me/him on that, I may have misunderstood the discussion. j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #12 July 1, 2004 QuoteSimon would not make that kind of mistake! Um, well, he did. QuoteNot yet ... Have you pursued it any further? I never recieved the information fom you which office you contacted for the official FAA interpritation of the FAR. I go the e-mail address of an FAA inspector and sent him an e-mail, but he didn't reply and has apparently retired. I sent the FAA an e-mail asking which office I need to contact for an official ruling and didn't recieve a reply. I called and left a message, after being directed around to 3 different people and my call wasn't returned. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #13 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteA Safire I and and a Safire II are totally different. The line sets are not even similar! Really? Yep! Really... The ribs are the major difference and their placement. The inside 6 (A5,A4,and A3)load bearing are almost the same with the outside two being smaller in profile(on the Safire Two). The Safire I has more of a "gullwing" design. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #14 July 1, 2004 >Have a '1' and want a '2'? Get a re-line and re-mark the size as 7% smaller. I just installed the line set as-is after talking to Mel. Only mod I made was to the brake lines; I tried to follow your changes by shortening the inside two brake lines the proportionate amount. (Also lowered the cats-eye the same distance so as to not affect overall stowed line length.) It will be interesting to see how it flies. The next canopy I'm getting will be a Nitro/Nitron. I'm sick of having to bartack all these lines. (or to be more accurate, sick of sending Amy down to Otay to bartack lines.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #15 July 5, 2004 Vectran does elongate over the life of a lineset, typically about an inch. But it seems to do so fairly evenly, which keeps the overall trim at a very acceptable level. HMA, or Technora, that we use on our canopies seems to elongate just a little bit, much less than vectran does. Both of these fibers keep their trim very nicely compared to spectra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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