mjosparky 3 #26 April 7, 2011 Quote Before anyone says it, I didn't just randomly downsize, I made sure I was ready and had senior people who agreed I was ready. The fact that you are loading both you main and reserve above what PD recommends for an expert canopy pilot probably doesn’t really matter with “mad skills”. Like Windsor said getting away with something for awhile leads to confusing luck with skill. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #27 April 7, 2011 Quote Before anyone says it, I didn't just randomly downsize, I made sure I was ready and had senior people who agreed I was ready. LOL - you must have known you would get a Canopy Nazi comment by posting that!"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVincisEnvy 0 #28 April 8, 2011 QuoteI'm sorry but how about us new guys who are flying large slower canopies. The DZ I currently go to is very organized, but I'm told other DZ's tend to be a little bit more loose. What do you suggest that we on the large slower canopies do so as to stay out of the way? A good friend suggested going into deep brakes up wind and waiting for everyone to get down and then starting my pattern. Suggestions? An alternative that I use is to land in the less crowded student or alternate (non-HP) landing areas. I load my canopy right at 1:1, so I'm often the first down in the student area. It's certainly not something to do at a new DZ without first talking to the S&TA or DZO like DocPop suggested, but it is a possible alternative to holding in brakes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #29 April 8, 2011 QuoteQuote Before anyone says it, I didn't just randomly downsize, I made sure I was ready and had senior people who agreed I was ready. LOL - you must have known you would get a Canopy Nazi comment by posting that! Put a few in a bag before you call anyone a "Canopy Nazi" hot shot. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #30 April 8, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Before anyone says it, I didn't just randomly downsize, I made sure I was ready and had senior people who agreed I was ready. LOL - you must have known you would get a Canopy Nazi comment by posting that! Put a few in a bag before you call anyone a "Canopy Nazi" hot shot. Sparky Yeah, besides it is "Canopy Control Agent" any ways. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #31 April 8, 2011 Quote The fact that you are loading both you main and reserve above what PD recommends for an expert canopy pilot probably doesn’t really matter with “mad skills”. Like Windsor said getting away with something for awhile leads to confusing luck with skill. Why don't you PM me and ask who thinks it's cool for me to be flying those canopies mate instead of attacking me for being "mad skillz" person. Nah, falling back on the "mad skillz" meme, so fondly used here, is a way better approach. Plus, it's easier to ignore what I'm saying and not have to refute it logically. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #32 April 8, 2011 QuoteLOL - you must have known you would get a Canopy Nazi comment by posting that! Yeah, sometimes I forget to delete that stuff... oh well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #33 April 8, 2011 QuoteYou are right. I was drunk and angry when I posted this. My intention was to be argumentative and I apologize. To whom are you apologizing? The many deceased victims of ill-advised HP landings in the general landing area, I hope.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
basejumper1 0 #34 April 8, 2011 Firstly, I'm apologizing for not finding a more constructive manner in which to state my case. Secondly and primarily, I'm apologizing for being argumentative and confusing the issue...as the person I referenced did. He who was struck, Mr. Kallend, confused the issue too. This individual as you and I both know was not struck by a person doing a hook turn but by someone with bad judgment. So to cite this incident as evidence that hook turns are dangerous, ceteris paribus, is disingenuous. The question of whether or not doing hook turns through the pattern is dangerous, is not relevant to my argument. Using circumstances that aren't factual to support either side of the "hook turn debate," when a hook turn wasn't involved, is wrong. Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #35 April 8, 2011 QuoteQuoteDocPop So as the new guy who would be the person to talk to regarding this? I dont' with to get in the way and make things harder for others. Is there an SOP for this or is it DZ to DZ kind of thing? My suggestion would be to speak to either the DZO or the S&TA as those guys should have an overview of what the other jumpers should be doing. Give them an outline of what you plan to do and ask if this fits in with the way the DZ runs and if there is anything you should be aware of. I would not personally assume anything about a new DZ - it's so much safer to ask and get the facts. Shah it would be a good idea also to speak up in the loading area to let everyone on the load know what your plans are.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #36 April 8, 2011 QuoteDocPop So as the new guy who would be the person to talk to regarding this? I dont' with to get in the way and make things harder for others. Is there an SOP for this or is it DZ to DZ kind of thing? When I go to a different DZ, from as big as Skydive Chicago to a little 1 Cessna place, I make sure I get a good briefing. Usually from manifest when I fill out the waiver. This includes- Landing areas (is a particular area restricted to higher licenses?) Traffic patterns (Left, right, preferred landing directions) HP area/method of seperation (Where should I stay away from?) Good and bad "Outlanding" areas (some places have areas that look good at first but have hidden hazards) Anything else that I need to know (I ask that specific question) The places I've been have an aerial photo with most of the necessary info on it. Every time I ask, the manifest people are very helpful and willing to take the time to answer all my questions."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in2jumping 0 #37 April 9, 2011 Quote I'm sorry but how about us new guys who are flying large slower canopies. The DZ I currently go to is very organized, but I'm told other DZ's tend to be a little bit more loose. What do you suggest that we on the large slower canopies do so as to stay out of the way? A good friend suggested going into deep brakes up wind and waiting for everyone to get down and then starting my pattern. Suggestions? Easy, just downsize to a 1.5 loaded Katana . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #38 April 9, 2011 Quote Easy, just downsize to a 1.5 loaded Katana . That's NOT going to help you stay up until everyone else is down. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #39 April 9, 2011 QuoteFirstly, I'm apologizing for not finding a more constructive manner in which to state my case. Secondly and primarily, I'm apologizing for being argumentative and confusing the issue...as the person I referenced did. He who was struck, Mr. Kallend, confused the issue too. This individual as you and I both know was not struck by a person doing a hook turn but by someone with bad judgment. So to cite this incident as evidence that hook turns are dangerous, ceteris paribus, is disingenuous. The question of whether or not doing hook turns through the pattern is dangerous, is not relevant to my argument. Using circumstances that aren't factual to support either side of the "hook turn debate," when a hook turn wasn't involved, is wrong. Cheers! Can you provide a link to any post I've made that criticizes hook turns. You clearly have an overactive imagination.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
basejumper1 0 #40 April 9, 2011 Quote from you in: BSR proposal for canopy patterns "People are intentionally doing 270s (and more) into standard traffic patterns. I've been hit by such an individual. By pure luck, I am still here to tell you about it. Others have not been so lucky." And again... I recognize that I should have found a better avenue for discussing this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #41 April 9, 2011 QuoteQuote from you in: BSR proposal for canopy patterns "People are intentionally doing 270s (and more) into standard traffic patterns. I've been hit by such an individual. By pure luck, I am still here to tell you about it. Others have not been so lucky." And again... I recognize that I should have found a better avenue for discussing this. Are you somehow turning that into an attack on "hook turns"? If so, that's pretty lame. "Straight up... one idiot made a huge mistake and the other idiot used it as hookturn propaganda ever since. " Do you REALLY think pulling a 270 in the standard traffic pattern is a good idea? REALLY? Good enough to start a thread calling me an idiot?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
basejumper1 0 #42 April 9, 2011 I don't think that pulling a hook turn through the landing pattern is a good idea at all. And again, that's not my argument. I think I've been clear on that. I am sorry that I name called. I should never have done that... Good luck, very glad you're alive and have a great day! Laterz! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #43 April 9, 2011 QuoteI'm sorry but how about us new guys who are flying large slower canopies. The DZ I currently go to is very organized, but I'm told other DZ's tend to be a little bit more loose. What do you suggest that we on the large slower canopies do so as to stay out of the way? Guys under smaller faster canopies are usually going to land before you. You'll be happier if they pass you at a higher altitude when they're flying straight ahead and aren't going to distract you when you're flaring. Don't spiral. Don't open low. Hang out in brakes when you want to to land later. This even works for 105 square foot mains. It's like getting on a highway - getting in an open spot in traffic (an altitude with good vertical separation from the other canopies) might mean speeding up or slowing down. Where the car coming up is a sports car driven by a young guy you're probably better off waiting for him to pass. Where it's a little old lady you probably want to be in front of her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
