pimpin8ez 0 #1 June 17, 2004 I just bought my first rig, which is an old Talon. I believe the DOM is '88. The rig was owned by a rigger, was gently used, and is in excellent condition. It is off getting a cypres put in, and a reserve repack done right now. BUT...Is it FF friendly??? If not, can it be modified to be FF friendly? I plan on asking the previous owner and others at the DZ these questions, but I would appreciate any oppinions out there! I'll really be dissapointed if I can't make this rig work for what I want to do. "I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #2 June 17, 2004 >>I'll really be dissapointed if I can't make this rig work for what I want to do. << In the future, I would recommend you perform the following steps in the following order when making major purchases: 1. Decide what you want to use it for. 2. Get equipment appropriate to that use. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #3 June 17, 2004 is it a velcro Talon ?? I recommend you talk to another rigger and instructors at your DZ concerning that.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 June 17, 2004 You *can* FF in anything, although its just not smart to in the majority of older rigs out there. Not smart as in potental premies, which can do a lot of bad things ranging from death, death of a jump buddy and you or possibly just a sore neck. Have your rigger look at it and explain if it is or isn't FF safe and explain why.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pimpin8ez 0 #5 June 17, 2004 What about modifications? "I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pimpin8ez 0 #6 June 17, 2004 Okay! I just spoke with the master rigger who has my rig right now. Apparently, there are no riser covers or tuck tabs on the system right now, making FF questionable. BUT, he is going to install the necessary modifications to make it safe. Whew!...I think I got a little lucky. "I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #7 June 17, 2004 Check the cost to do those mod's, the cost might be a lot more then what you paid for the system.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #8 June 17, 2004 No riser covers? That must be a misunderstanding. Safe?... maybe. Old Talons are generally large. The Main has to be large enough to ensure the closing loop is tight. Other wise the loop is about 1/2 inch long and relying on only the width of the flaps grommets to keep the thing closed. It's not very tolerant of too small of a main. The Reserve cover flap is Velcro so it will need to be held closed with a rubber band. The riser covers are probably velcro closed. Tabs can be added but the original Tab design wasn't adequate. If additional velcro is added, you'll get by ... temporarily. You may have some luck with it because the Riser covers are short. There isn't a large amount of exposed riser. However, if the covers blow open, risers and toggles may be free to properly malfunction your main. Been there done that and seen it plenty on other rigs with longer riser covers. Bridle will be exposed so ensure there is a cover flap installed or brand new velcro to stick it down. Velcor wears out quick so it's not really a good option. Good luckMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #9 June 18, 2004 QuoteIf not, can it be modified to be FF friendly? Hi, I used an original Talon (1989) for headup flying for two years with no ill results. Get your rigger to contact Sandy Reid at Rigging Innovations (Talon manufacturers) and ask about putting the Voodoo style tuck tabs on the reserve flap. He did it for mine when I was over in Eloy, and it worked a treat )--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pimpin8ez 0 #10 June 18, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf not, can it be modified to be FF friendly? Properly maintaining all the velcro on your rig will keep it safe for head-up flying, but IMNSHO Stay off your Head! As mentioned above, open riser covers can be nasty! Quote Thanks for all the great advice!!! Can you explain for me why head down could still be dangerous even with these mods? "I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #11 June 18, 2004 QuoteCan you explain for me why head down could still be dangerous even with these mods? Why yes! For an old style talon, "the double teflon pins for your main pin, a la tandem kit", sounds like a good Idea. The main container needs to be filled out completely to maintain enough pin tension. The deflon pins will keep it shut even if the main is a bit smaller than it should be. Riser covers: Velcro Peels. Properly maintained velcro peels. So, get on your head, the wind will eventually if not immeadiatly, push the riser covers open exposing the risers and toggles. Parachutes do funny things on deployment when a toggle escapes into the air stream. Not only is the toggle a hazzard because it's free to smack you in the head, snag a camera ... etc... the brake on that side is no longer set. People get flung into line twists sometimes when one toggle is unstowed. I've chopped one canopy because a toggle escaped and flung me into unrecoverable line twists. Back on my very first cutaway, the toggle escaped and very oddly went through the lines above, and below the slider. To counter steer, I had to hold the left toggle down to my shoulder. That was too much for me to deal with by my hard deck so I gave up and cutaway. (I've never had a malfunction while jumping my old Talon. I used it for around 500 ish jumps. It went through 3 more owners afterwards including my brother) --- One Mod that I did for my old talon was to 2 inch velcro onto a length of type 12. Then sew it onto the riser covers increasing the amount of velcro. You have to taper the additional velcro piece other wish the riser will destroy it pretty rapidly. It works but it's temporary. As stated earlier, the riser covers are short. They stay shut a little better than other velcro closed riser covers. It's not great but it will get you by for a short time as you get some jumps under your belt and prepare to upgrade to a new style rig. One major key to success is to keep every thing closed until you want it open. Old style talons are practically bullet proof for durability but when it was designed, no one thought about people flying at 200 mph straight down. Good luck!My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #12 June 18, 2004 Did later designs of the Talon ever get any better, or would they be referred to as Talon 2's ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites petetheladd 0 #13 June 18, 2004 I did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ). I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight. The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap. PtL No, Not without incident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skreamer 1 #14 June 19, 2004 QuoteThe biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly You were head down, your harness slipped off your shoulders and was caught on your elbows? Dude, I got a cold chill just reading that! Everyone will tell you a more modern freefly friendly rig will be safer because it is true. Why compromise? Use the right tool for the right job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #15 June 20, 2004 QuoteI did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ). I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight. The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap. PtL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a case where a thin Type 8 chest strap is too loose in the buckle. Some people wrap an extra black elastic strap keeper around the buckle to prevent slippage. I sewed an extra layer of type 8 webbing on the chest strap of my Talon 2 to "bulk out" the buckle and prevent slippage. Another solution is the double layer of Type 17 used by many manufacturers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pimpin8ez 0 #16 June 21, 2004 Hey all, I just got the rig back this weekend from the rigger. This guy is an master rigger and also has more than 6000 jumps. He also owns an original Talon himself and does FF in it...he says I should have nothing to worry about, although tuck tabs and more velcro in the future isn't a bad idea.............. "I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites talon2 0 #17 June 21, 2004 The Talon listed at the beginning of this topic was superceded by the tuck flap stlye rig in 1994.The 94 Talon made use of some of the features seen on RIs Flexon.Talons 2 ,3 preceeded the current Talon FS. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites petetheladd 0 #18 June 22, 2004 QuoteQuoteI did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ). I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight. The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap. PtL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a case where a thin Type 8 chest strap is too loose in the buckle. No, I had the wide chest strap with two elastics, its just that if I tightened the strap comfortably to where the shoulder straps were perpendicular to my shoulders, the rig could slowly work itself down off my shoulders. As a rule, I would cinch the chest strap real tight to where the shoulder straps bent in like an hour glass shape(nowadays they're cut into that shape). It only ever happened once, that I left it loose enough for it to work itself down. ..And once was enough P.t.L No, Not without incident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
hookitt 0 #11 June 18, 2004 QuoteCan you explain for me why head down could still be dangerous even with these mods? Why yes! For an old style talon, "the double teflon pins for your main pin, a la tandem kit", sounds like a good Idea. The main container needs to be filled out completely to maintain enough pin tension. The deflon pins will keep it shut even if the main is a bit smaller than it should be. Riser covers: Velcro Peels. Properly maintained velcro peels. So, get on your head, the wind will eventually if not immeadiatly, push the riser covers open exposing the risers and toggles. Parachutes do funny things on deployment when a toggle escapes into the air stream. Not only is the toggle a hazzard because it's free to smack you in the head, snag a camera ... etc... the brake on that side is no longer set. People get flung into line twists sometimes when one toggle is unstowed. I've chopped one canopy because a toggle escaped and flung me into unrecoverable line twists. Back on my very first cutaway, the toggle escaped and very oddly went through the lines above, and below the slider. To counter steer, I had to hold the left toggle down to my shoulder. That was too much for me to deal with by my hard deck so I gave up and cutaway. (I've never had a malfunction while jumping my old Talon. I used it for around 500 ish jumps. It went through 3 more owners afterwards including my brother) --- One Mod that I did for my old talon was to 2 inch velcro onto a length of type 12. Then sew it onto the riser covers increasing the amount of velcro. You have to taper the additional velcro piece other wish the riser will destroy it pretty rapidly. It works but it's temporary. As stated earlier, the riser covers are short. They stay shut a little better than other velcro closed riser covers. It's not great but it will get you by for a short time as you get some jumps under your belt and prepare to upgrade to a new style rig. One major key to success is to keep every thing closed until you want it open. Old style talons are practically bullet proof for durability but when it was designed, no one thought about people flying at 200 mph straight down. Good luck!My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #12 June 18, 2004 Did later designs of the Talon ever get any better, or would they be referred to as Talon 2's ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petetheladd 0 #13 June 18, 2004 I did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ). I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight. The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap. PtL No, Not without incident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #14 June 19, 2004 QuoteThe biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly You were head down, your harness slipped off your shoulders and was caught on your elbows? Dude, I got a cold chill just reading that! Everyone will tell you a more modern freefly friendly rig will be safer because it is true. Why compromise? Use the right tool for the right job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #15 June 20, 2004 QuoteI did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ). I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight. The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap. PtL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a case where a thin Type 8 chest strap is too loose in the buckle. Some people wrap an extra black elastic strap keeper around the buckle to prevent slippage. I sewed an extra layer of type 8 webbing on the chest strap of my Talon 2 to "bulk out" the buckle and prevent slippage. Another solution is the double layer of Type 17 used by many manufacturers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pimpin8ez 0 #16 June 21, 2004 Hey all, I just got the rig back this weekend from the rigger. This guy is an master rigger and also has more than 6000 jumps. He also owns an original Talon himself and does FF in it...he says I should have nothing to worry about, although tuck tabs and more velcro in the future isn't a bad idea.............. "I poop too much...and then I get tired." -Beavis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
talon2 0 #17 June 21, 2004 The Talon listed at the beginning of this topic was superceded by the tuck flap stlye rig in 1994.The 94 Talon made use of some of the features seen on RIs Flexon.Talons 2 ,3 preceeded the current Talon FS. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petetheladd 0 #18 June 22, 2004 QuoteQuoteI did hundreds of FF jumps on an original Talon ( I still have the rig though its a secondary one now ). I kept the velcro maintained, used an elastic on the reserve to keep the flap shut, had it converted to BOC and flew HD with the chest strap tight. The biggest scare was during a Headdown dive, the chest strap must have worked a bit loose and I had both shoulder straps slip down to my elbows ... Yoikes .. end of dive, transit to sit and get may gear back on properly You can use it to Freefly but as everyone will tell you a more modern rig will be safer however I would'nt see a talon properly setup as a FF deathtrap. PtL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a case where a thin Type 8 chest strap is too loose in the buckle. No, I had the wide chest strap with two elastics, its just that if I tightened the strap comfortably to where the shoulder straps were perpendicular to my shoulders, the rig could slowly work itself down off my shoulders. As a rule, I would cinch the chest strap real tight to where the shoulder straps bent in like an hour glass shape(nowadays they're cut into that shape). It only ever happened once, that I left it loose enough for it to work itself down. ..And once was enough P.t.L No, Not without incident Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
