masterrig 1 #1 June 16, 2004 Does anyone feel that we should we have a 'life-span' on parachutes and harness-containers in the U.S.? Some countries have a limit of 20 or 25 yrs. Should we leave it the way it is, up to the rigger as to airworthiness? Thoughts? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #2 June 16, 2004 PIA tried to propose a service life for parachutes. This was ment with great resistance and anger by the user community. Pretty much at every PIA business meeting this is discussed. The concencus is that there is no way to make one policy fit all. A 10 year old reserve stored properly and then put into service is not the same as the same year and model put into service at DOM and beat to hell, pack 3 times a year, rode 4 times, and stored in the back of the car. Many manufacturers do put service life limits on their products. Some are for the general customer like Securities 15 year life on the 350 type pilot rigs and PD's 40 pack jobs or 25 jumps before reevaluation by the factory. Others are contract specific. Often a foreign customer, military or otherwise wants a service life as part of a contract or bid. Manufacturers are happy to supply this number, whether in reality it means much or not. An absolute service life tends to imply that all individual items will be good that long. We know the variability in use and wear makes that untrue. We have never been able to come up with a working proposal for a general service life. The general concensus is that it is unworkable. PIA Rigging Committee ChairmanI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #3 June 16, 2004 Thanks, Terry! I appreciate your in-put. You don't seem in a 'pissy' mood, like yesterday! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #4 June 16, 2004 Germany used to have a limited lifetime of 15 years on reserves and containers, it was dropped by the german parachute association late last year if i remember correct. Because of a change in law, the manufacturer now can set a lifetime limitation. There used to be a list of all manufacturers and their limit on lifetime on the homepage of the german rigger association http://prueferverband.de/ but now it is gone. The only manufacturers with a limitation in lifetime where from Germany and South Africa (with the PD reserve limitation on nr. of packjobs etc. as an exception). Paratec however was mentioned as a manufacturer with a limitation, but said, to my rigger that they don't have one even though they are on the list. The whole topic also created a big discussion on stammtisch. If you want the list pm me i still have it. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #5 June 16, 2004 I am, just didn't show it. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #6 June 16, 2004 Geeze! Ya' gotta snap out of it! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #7 June 16, 2004 I think that jumpers should be able to get a special "classic" patch that they can sew onto the outside of any container older than 20 years. It would be similar to the "antique" license plates you can get for cars, and would exempt the owner from having, at any future point, to install a mandatory AAD or RSL Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #8 June 16, 2004 I will after this public meeting I have to chair in an hour about running a lake augmentation pump and the flooding that the 3rd wettest May in history and a continuing wet June has caused. Even though we turned the pump off and mother nature has added 4 inches to the lake level, we're still getting blamed. Grrr. The joys of local politics. Of couse this lake was down 18 inches and about 1/3 the surface area when we put the pump in.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #9 June 16, 2004 Now, I'm mad! I understand what you're saying! All the best to you and I hope, it goes good for you. Just don't take no crap or hostages! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #10 June 16, 2004 QuoteI think that jumpers should be able to get a special "classic" patch that they can sew onto the outside of any container older than 20 years. It would be similar to the "antique" license plates you can get for cars, and would exempt the owner from having, at any future point, to install a mandatory AAD or RSL OK, that's it, Phil; You've been spending WAY to much time hanging around with Skratch!!!"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #11 June 16, 2004 Quote Should we leave it the way it is, up to the rigger as to airworthiness? Thoughts? Chuck It ought to stay the way it is. Nylon doesn't wear out when not mechanically worn/damaged, out in the sun, or exposed to chemicals whether 4 years old or 40. Just jumped some 40 year old gear and it worked fine, although for daily use I prefer something more modern. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #12 June 17, 2004 It seems to me that it's the technology that gets old, not the materials. I've seen more than one jumper sucked into buy a pegasus with 1000 jumps on it in an old Bullet or Innovater container. Yeah they work, Yeah they were built well, Yeah they can be safe, but does someone with 50 jumps know the limitations of his own gear? How will the gear perform when he's head downing or sit flying with his friends? And I don't even want to go into the main landings. The kicker here.... it was sold to them by a rigger! I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #13 June 17, 2004 >OK, that's it, Phil; You've been spending WAY to much >time hanging around with Skratch!!! Hey! Watch it, kid! I've had a Cypres for four years now! I finally had to repack my reserve to change the dang battery! Grumble grumble ... who ever heard of a parachute needing a dang battery? ... mumble mumble ... Who ever heard of a man needing to walk his fish?? ... what this world's coming too ... ... ( mumble mumble ... Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #14 June 17, 2004 QuoteQuote Should we leave it the way it is, up to the rigger as to airworthiness? Thoughts? Chuck It ought to stay the way it is. Nylon doesn't wear out when not mechanically worn/damaged, out in the sun, or exposed to chemicals whether 4 years old or 40. Just jumped some 40 year old gear and it worked fine, although for daily use I prefer something more modern. I can't agree. On several occasions I have seen reserves ~20 years old that appeared to be in perfect condition, but the fabric tore like Kleenex."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #15 June 17, 2004 Un-believable! I know of a master rigger/DPRE, who sold a T-10-A, as a reserve to a 'beginner. The parachute had a Mfg. date of 1946! It finally came to my shop and like the one that was referred to in this thread; "tore like tissue paper"! Seems that the old adage holds true; 'Let the buyer beware'. Thanks, for yours and all the other posts in this thread. Good way to learn. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #16 June 17, 2004 Quote>OK, that's it, Phil; You've been spending WAY to much >time hanging around with Skratch!!! Hey! Watch it, kid! I've had a Cypres for four years now! I finally had to repack my reserve to change the dang battery! Grumble grumble ... who ever heard of a parachute needing a dang battery? ... mumble mumble ... Who ever heard of a man needing to walk his fish?? ... what this world's coming too ... ... ( mumble mumble ... Skr Well I was trying to elicit a reaction from Phil, but this was even better! "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #17 June 17, 2004 Strong Enterprises made sense when they established mandatory 20 jump or 18 year "lives" to tandem gear. At the same time, they included mandatory inspections after 8 years and 13 years. Like my boss said: "If you have not worn out a tandem main in 8 years, you are in the wrong business." My greatest dilemma is convincing Vector Tandem owners to trade in their faded, frayed and filthy, 13-year-old Vectors????? The other reason for setting life limits is to quietly retire old technology: Capewells, non-diapered rounds, etc.. For example, setting a 20 year limit allows a rigger to gracefully replace all the round reserves from the acid mesh era. A 20 year limit gives pilots a predictable time frame for replacing PEPs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
