When did you start flying an elliptical?

[RyanofOZ 0]

To start off, I have no desire to go buy a shiny new elliptical canopy any time soon. I heard a student (25) jumps at my DZ the other day telling me that he was going to get a really good deal on a stiletto and did not see why his instructor told him he was going to kill himself. He asked me what I thought and I told him that I agree with the instructor!

Point being is that it got me thinking when all of you started jumping ellipticals. I have a Spectre and love it. I would probably go to a Safire2 or Sabre2 after this, one step down from current size and be happy for a long time. That however is a long way down the road because I have a blast on the Spectre I currently own.

So, When did you cross over and was it a good choice on your part? Just curious to see what the average is here!

Oz

[NeedToJump 0]

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So, When did you cross over

At somewhere around 200 I went to a Stiletto 135 loaded at 1.25

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and was it a good choice on your part?

Hell no! I am definitely lucky to have lived a few times...

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[Brains 2]

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So, When did you cross over

At somewhere around 200 150 I went to a Stiletto cobalt 135 loaded at 1.25 1.4

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and was it a good choice on your part?

Hell no! I am definitely lucky to have lived a few times...

no corrections needed on the second part.

All that said, learn from our mistakes. There are no set #'s or guidelines for crossing over to elip. Read Billvons steps to downsizing. I truly believe that to be the best thing out there.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[cloud9 0]

I went to a Heatwave 150 loaded around 1.33 at about 200 jumps.
By the way your already jumping an elliptical canopy the Spectre.
Many of the so called full elliptical canopies are not as tapered as the so called semi- ellipticals.
Just food for thought.

[AggieDave 6]

I'll tell you that I started jumping ellipticals at under 200 jumps. It was a stupid idea, I got lucky more then once, that's for damn sure!

I should have bought a Sabre2 and really learned how to fly it instead of what I started with.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Romericus 0]

I went elliptical at about 150 jumps. At the time, I didn't think it was stupid. I sure do now. On jump 268, I hooked in and had to stop skydiving for a while. Here it is six years later, and I'm trying to get back into the sport. I will probably jump under an elliptical again, but not for a while, and I'll treat it with much more respect than I did the first time.

[Tonto 1]

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So, When did you cross over

At about 1200 dives, loaded to about 1.6 on the world's 1st production eliptical, a Jonathan 120 by Airtime designs...

After 650 on 220 F-111 type 7 cells
150 on PD type 190 - 170 9 cells
200 on "21 cell" Excalibur type 150's
200 on ZP 9cell 145's

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and was it a good choice on your part?

It must have been. I jumped Jonathan 120's for the next 10 years (1500 dives excl Tandem, CRW etc) and only moved to a Stilleto 107 (1.78) at about 3600 jumps.

My next canopy won't be an eliptical. It'll be either a Velocity/VX/FX around 100 sq ft for AFF, and I'll probably stick with a Safire 120 for wing suit dives.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[speedy 0]

Jump number 36, Springo 160 loaded at 1.05:1

Was it a bad idea? Hell yes, Springo's flare like shit

You can kill yourself on any canopy. It's just easier if they are small and elliptical.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[scottjaco 0]

I did some reading on the PD website and it said that all canapies weather they are eliptical, tapered or square 9 or 7 cell, all fly at the same speed.
Assuming they are all the same SQ ft. size and wingloading.

If you don't do anything aggessive below your hard deck, why is it so stupid to use it.

I was thinking about renting a Stilleto 150 just to see what all the fuss is about.

[AggieDave 6]

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If you don't do anything aggessive below your hard deck, why is it so stupid to use it.

That's it, IF, with low jumps you have a low number of landings, whats to say you'll setup correctly every time so you don't end up doing a low turn to avoid an obsticle or another jumper? What if you're having to land off in someone's backyard?

Experience is the key to survival.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[speedy 0]

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I did some reading on the PD website and it said that all canapies weather they are eliptical, tapered or square 9 or 7 cell, all fly at the same speed.

They certainly don't all turn at the same speed, they don't all lose the the same amount of height during a turn. Different canopies have different glide ratio's.

There is always risk involved in downsizing, changing wing form, etc.
Only change from your current canopy after consulting with your instructors or someone with lots of experience. And do it face to face, not on the internet.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[ianmdrennan 2]

Hi Scott,

The more tapered the canopy the more the pilot has to deal with things like deployment positions (possibility of spinning up and having to chop), oversteer, rate of turn, etc.

I'm not entirely sure that the idea of a heavily tapered canopy (remember the sabre2 is lightly tapered) is in itself something to get worked up over, but it's more what comes along with it that make it unsuitable for up coming jumpers.

I think that, more than anything, is why people get their panties in a bunch.

I think it does deserve discussion though.

Blue ones,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[pilotdave 0]

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My next canopy won't be an eliptical. It'll be either a Velocity/VX/FX around 100 sq ft for AFF, and I'll probably stick with a Safire 120 for wing suit dives.

Did I miss something? Those are all elliptical...

Dave

[Tonto 1]

Yeah, but very light elipticals that require LONG periods on the risers to complete turns, rather than the "snappy" Stilleto, Heatwave etc ilk.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Garycal 0]

I went to a Diablo 190 with a load of 0.948 at 75 jumps the light load and the 7 cells make it a little more forgiving then some of the higher loaded 9 cells. But I still have be careful on landings

[phoenixlpr 0]

IMHO the number of cells make no big difference. WL and form/trim make the difference big!

[sammer 0]

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If you don't do anything aggessive below your hard deck, why is it so stupid to use it.

I was thinking about renting a Stilleto 150 just to see what all the fuss is about.

I just did that with a CF2 loaded at ~1.5 last weekend.

In my opinion, it's not that they are hard to fly or anything, just that they really beg to be flown aggressively. In fact, I thought maybe I should have gotten a smaller one at first. "This is no big deal" I thought. Next thing you know I was trying to hook it in

I think it would be really easy to demo one of these and think you had it under control. Then you would get cocky with it and that's when you would probably get hurt. It's easy to say that you just won't do anything stupid....but I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out what the fuck I was thinking.

Just my experience.

[speedy 0]

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I just did that with a CF2 loaded at ~1.5 last weekend.

.....

what the fuck I was thinking.

What the fuck was the person thinking who let you fly something loaded at 1.5 when you only have 140 jumps

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[sammer 0]

Actualy, several instructors/expereinced guys told me not to fuck with a 169. "just get a 149, or you'll be bored" they told me. I think the only reason I got away with it is that I am a pretty large guy. A 170 isn't that aggressive for most people.

[NeedToJump 0]

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A 170 isn't that aggressive for most people

You can kill yourself under any canopy. The smaller / higher loaded / more aggressive it is the easier it is to do.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[Kris 0]

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Actualy, several instructors/expereinced guys told me not to fuck with a 169. "just get a 149, or you'll be bored" they told me.

This has to be my biggest pet peeve ever. Since when did instructors and 'experienced' jumpers become psychic? When I got my instructor rating I sure as hell didn't get ESP as part of the package.

Boredom can be a good thing, it gives people a chance to learn their canopies.

Speedy...if you were 1.5 under that 149, you would still be 1.3 under a 169. This isn't a race, slow down and learn how to fly a canopy at 1:1 before trying to get so damn agressive.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[riggerrob 558]

I first flew an elliptical canopy back in 1988, when I had 800 jumps.
* That is just me being flippant, as I was flying one of the first tapered para-gliders and taperd parachutes were still a few years away.*

I did not start flying tapered canopies (SET 400) on a regular basis until 1999 when I had close to 3,000 jumps.

[sammer 0]

It was the 169 I used. I would have been 1.68 under the 149....I am a fat ass. And I will slow down.

I just wanted to point out that I really thought I had a handle on it....right up until I almost broke myself. It would be an easy mistake for another newbie to make and that is why I posted it. I got lucky and I realize that now.

I will now STFU and go hook my 190 back up.

Sam

[RyanofOZ 0]

I am a fat ass too. When I go for my first elliptical, it will be a big one for sure. I load a 210 at 1.15 as it is...

Oz

[freakyflyr11 0]

i think i had around 100 to 150 jumps when i started flying a eliptical canopy and i think no one should do this i am very lucky.also once i went to eliptical i never went back..