Riggers: I repack Racer reserves

[riddler 0]

Riggers only, please. I've talked to a number of riggers lately, and it seems like most of the ones I've spoken with won't repack them, or only under special circumstances.

I would really like to repack one or two just to see what the fuss is about. Are they really that bad? Or is there a bag of tricks for an easy repack?

Feel free to chime in with your opinions. I would love to hear from someone that's packed a tandem Racer, and other variations of Jump Shack products.

Edit - sorry, I just learned you can't put markup in a poll option, and you can't edit it either!

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[OnYourBack 0]

A little extra work yes but not that big a deal. The only tirck to them is the way you have to feed the pull up cords through the Cypress cutters since the t-bods won't fit. Its just like a Reflex basically.

[Miami 0]

Not a rigger yet but have a little over 100 reserve pack jobs and 3 saves. I own 3 racers and my wife had a racer before we got pregnant and had to sell hers, so I have a fair amount of racer reserve packing experience. They are not that hard to close when you first start to pack them...and once you get them down they are downright easy.

I wonder about a rigger's ability if they will flat out refuse to pack a racer, given they had all of the knowledge neccesary to do it properly.

Edit to add: I'm curious if the riggers you spoke to who refused to pack a racer say that because they have packed them and were uncomfortable with it or unable to do it, or if they had just heard it was hard from someone else and don't want to attempt it?

Edit again to add to my comment about a rigger's ability.

Miami

[sunshine 2]

Quote

I wonder about a rigger's ability if they will flat out refuse to pack a racer.

I guess you'll have to wonder about my ability then. I refuse to pack them. Until i'm able to get 1:1 instruction from a rigger proficient in packing racers, i will not do them. I'm not about to do a repack on something that i have to second guess myself if i'm doing it right. Yeah, i've looked at the instructions and a racer rig, and just didn't feel comfortable doing it. With the rigger's creed saying "i will be sure, always" i'm not gonna do something i'm not sure about.

Personally i think refusing to pack something i'm not 100% sure on is more respectable than attempting to repack something just so people won't question my abilities.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[councilman24 37]

I don't pack Racer's anymore because there are virtually none in my area and I'm not current. I can do it but it would take me twice as long as the things I'm familiar with and someone else will do a better job.

I used to pack lots of Racers, with rounds. I've done a few with ramairs but the last customer I had with a Racer got his own rigger ticket in 1991.

Some riggers have more personal reasons/opinions for not packing Racers, or other particular rigs.

But I do pack Preserve V pilot rigs. You want to see something weird check out that manual. And I charge more.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Miami 0]

Hey Sunny,
I guess our ideas of "flat out refuse" are a little different from each others. You are willing to do them once you have been properly instructed...which should be expected of any rigger with any type rig. I absolutely agree with you on this and definitely think it is more respectable to be knowledgeable about a system before you attempt to repack it instead of just trying to do it.

Miami

[riddler 0]

Quote

Edit to add: I'm curious if the riggers you spoke to who refused to pack a racer say that because they have packed them and were uncomfortable with it or unable to do it, or if they had just heard it was hard from someone else and don't want to attempt it?

I've heard a number of explanations. I've heard that they have more steps and takes longer. I've heard they are harder to repack. I've heard them say they don't feel that they pack enough of them to do it well. I've heard that they just plain don't like them.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[brits17 0]

Yes. They're fairly common in my area at the dz's I pack for. In my opinion, they are not more difficult, just different. I actually prefer the closing sequence on a Racer versus the 'standard.'

There's a couple tricks. I haven't done a search, but a good Racer thread was in this forum a few months back.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[miller 0]

when I began getting serious about getting my rating, I went out and bought myself a new racer to learn on. In fact, I bought a tiny little bastard with the small reserve pilot chute, because I figured if I could get proficient on that, more average size one's wouldn't be that bad. Lucky thing, too, because my wife ended up buying a little tiny one for herself, so now packing the small ones is just a regular thing. The unfortunate thing(depending on how you look at it) is that I'm "the guy that will pack Racers" in this area, so I get a lot of referals from local riggers who won't pack them.

Learn to pack them, then decide if you don't want to do them.

[riggermick 7]

They take a little more finessing than some other types of rigs, but I've packed hundreds of them hell I even owned a couple (and some home built knock offs). My preference is for a Reflex but then again I'm biased.

Mick.

[skymedic 0]

just a little biased huh???

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[skybeergodd 0]

A Racer apcks up as easy as any other rig....it's just a different method to close them than any other rig. One piece of advise I can give to any rigger out there is to get romoveable handle bodkins. The Sunshine Factory selld them and they make closing a Racer very easy and simple. Now a Wings on the other hand ....I do chrge for for those pain in the butt rigs.

[Tink1717 2]

The best thing a rigger can do is to got o Jump Shack and spend a day with Mike. There is simply no substitute for getting factory trained with the latest techniques. It only takes a day and you get a cool t-shirt too boot.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[riddler 0]

Quote

The best thing a rigger can do is to got o Jump Shack and spend a day with Mike.

Very good idea! How much do they charge for the training? Is it held any time you call him and make an appointment, or do they have regularly scheduled classes?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[masterrig 1]

Personally, I find Racers 'interesting' to pack and a bit of a challenge. I don't feel as though they are so hard to pack, in that, you just have to 'pay attention' to what you are doing.... like anything else. I attended one of the Racer Seminars a few years ago and that was a 'big' help. Also, in the Cypres Packer's Checklist, there are some very helpful hints for packing Racers with Cypres. You might contact SSK-Industries for a copy. I've never used the 'mechanical 'T'-bars. I watched a guy throw one out the hangar door, because it broke on him, while packing a Racer. The Racer instructions are vague in areas. I don't charge any mor for packing Racers. When I'm packing a Racer, I found turning off the phone, lock the door and turn-up the tunes! Hope this helps.

Chuck

[Tink1717 2]

They didn't charge me anything. I gave him a days notice, came back the next day and did it. Mike is WAY COOL about it. (But it would probably be more tactful to give more than a days notice though.)

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[diveout 0]

I attended a racer reserve pack seminar at the holiday boogie in Eloy this past year. I wouldn't have any problem packing one for a customer, but I would probably charge $5 or $10 more. I just don't like the design as well as other rigs that are out there.

[jedeisurf 0]

I don't have a problem with racers the quick loop makes it easy, and for wings all you have to do is make real big ears.
David.

[caldwellbuilder 0]

I have packed them for years. It seems to me
that if the container is properly sized for the
canopy , then it is no problem, however there are
some racers that have the smaller reserves such
as the pd-113 and precision 109 that are hard on
my hands due to the exhorbitant amount of kneading required to remove the air and conform
them to the freebag. I like the larger caps more
than the smaller cap models, but I don't charge
any different for any reserve. There are a number
of tricks to making it easier.

[skr 1]

Hey Riddler,

Maybe the riggers where you jump aren't familiar with
Racers because there's only a couple of us jumping them,
and they're reluctant to pack something unfamiliar.

Gear fashions can get pretty ingrown at a small drop zone.

Skr

[diveout 0]

I don't like them because they take more time, are difficult to get to look neat when they're all closed up. Also- the design is really not as secure as containers with a covered or partially covered reserve pilot chute.

Para-Gear charges $25 more to re-pack a racer (see pg 190 of the catalog). I don't think they're unfamiliar with them or don't know the tricks to make it easier, it's because racers are sort of a pain in the ass to close.

This doesn't mean that they're wrong or bad or anything, they just take how they are

[Shivon 0]

I'm happy to pack Racers. When I did my riggers ticket my instructors went out of their way to make sure that racers with / without rounds were part of the process. I can understand why some guys / gals don't like to do them - and 'respect' to those who pass due to a lack of currency on a rig type.

[riddler 0]

Quote

Gear fashions can get pretty ingrown at a small drop zone.

I think you are spot on. When I go to other DZs, I see other gear. When I started at Mile Hi a few years ago, everyone wanted Javelins - now it seems, everyone has Mirages. When I go to Eloy, I see a lot of Voodoos, but I've only seen two here (and one of them is mine
Maybe the only way to get a lot of experience packing reserves is to live all over the country or world? Or maybe it would be better if more gear manufacturers did the Brian Germain thing and traveled around to different DZs to lecture/sell their products?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[riggerrob 623]

While Racers may not be the current fashion in British Columbia, over the last 20 years, I have packed most types of Racers ranging from SSTs, to Power Racers to a pair of Tandems. I have also repacked a variety of Racer clones including Reflex, Excalibur and three types of Teardrops. Heck, last week I showed my apprentice how to pack a Strong Para-Cushion seat pack!
I have never agreed with the pack volume numbers published by Jump Shack. Maybe it is just a desert vs. swamp argument, but I always felt that Jump Shack negated the flexibility inherent in the Racer design by making their reserve containers too tight for the reserve canopies they recommended.
If it is any consolation, I have packed hundreds of tight Talons, Vectors, Javelins, etc. ... just never said that I enjoyed packing tight reserves.
Last week Mike Forsythe - of Racer factory fame - sent me the latest, shiniest Racer packing tool recommended by the factory. Funny, it looks like a simplified version of the temporary loops I have been using for the last decade. Mine is adjustable and I finger-trapped a pair of pull-up cords onto it, but it is essentially the same. The factory tool even has an extra piece of Velcro to hold the pin cover open!
It is also rumored that Jump Shack is experimenting with a molarized reserve deployment bag.
Now that John Sherman has retired, they are starting to update/simplify the Racer design. Thank God!

[Unstable 9]

I am not a Rigger, so take what I say with a Grain of Salt, and I am Bias since I do jump the Newest MOdel of Racer and stand behind their design, but it seems to me that those who have experience in packing Racers agree that they are not harder to pack, but just different - and the newer riggers are the ones who claim they are much more difficult.

Where I come from, most riggers will pack a Racer in a heartbeat (and very well!!) but gripe at your for bringing them a Wings....


Blue Skies,

=========Shaun ==========