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Just bought my beloved Dainese body armor jacket today - (hard opening related)

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Very comfortable, but the chest protectors make me look like I have tits under my shirt lol>:(, seriously now...

I want to use it for skydiving (I posted this here because I know you guys are the most concerned jumpers when it comes to body armor gear), I bought the Dainese jacket mainly because of the spine protection, but the first time I put it on I noticed how good the chest protectors are and was thinking that they may protect your ribs from getting smashed in pieces by the chest strap in a hard opening.

In your honest opinion do you think they could help prevent broken ribs too?

Pic of the jacket attached.

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I have a few different set-ups(including this one for walls) but I am not sure that the chest protection is the most key for me. I also have never felt a hard opening where my Ribs took any of the blame because I am not even sure they see alot of the opening shock as I swing into the seat. In actuality my neck seems to be the most vulnerable and I have decided that even impedance of a brace or anything would actually interupt the natural flow of the momentum so I gladly accept the whiplash.

Not sure I see the need on a skydive. One may also find that the shoulder padding restricts immediate riser access without some discomfort.

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You must be planning some REAL Combat Relative Work!
Zing Lurks

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...but the first time I put it on I noticed how good the chest protectors are and was thinking that they may protect your ribs from getting smashed in pieces by the chest strap in a hard opening.

In your honest opinion do you think they could help prevent broken ribs too?



Let me just say...
YES!



(This will make no sense at all in the archives when I have switched my avatar photo..)
Looking for newbie rig, all components...

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I don't know what the people at the DZ will think when they see me skydiving with bodyarmor but hey, fuck it!, most people are so stupid they prefer fashion over safety and it's been proven again and again, damn...bill booth was right!

Reason why I'm skydiving with body armor is because I'm still not that confident about my landings (still on student gear, sucks). Plus the armor will come handy in case of a PLF, you never know.

(About the shoulder protectors, I took them off, they didn't let me lift my arms up comfortably at all)

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(This will make no sense at all in the archives when I have switched my avatar photo..)



Uh, it makes no sense now. I see a picture of an object.
I don't see a picture of an object strike.

More importantly, does this mean your old avatar is coming back?

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I don't know what the people at the DZ will think when they see me skydiving with bodyarmor but hey, fuck it!, most people are so stupid they prefer fashion over safety and it's been proven again and again, damn...bill booth was right!

Reason why I'm skydiving with body armor is because I'm still not that confident about my landings (still on student gear, sucks). Plus the armor will come handy in case of a PLF, you never know.

(About the shoulder protectors, I took them off, they didn't let me lift my arms up comfortably at all)



well i wouldn`t say most people are stupid for not using it...but i think it`s a great idea to using this armor btw..i would supply with a armorshorts for buttlandings..and long kneeprotectors..and a helmet with chincup..
the only drawbacks i can see by using all this plastic is it will be allot of work to put it on/off if you are doing 10-15 jumps for a day..
good luck....:)

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I want to use it for skydiving...
...your ribs from getting smashed in pieces by the chest strap in a hard opening.



Dude, what canopy are you jumping?

J.

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Navigator 190, WL 0.9. I know I know, but canopy has nothing to do, any canopy can give hard openings, in fact my problem is not the hard openings, it's the landings, just thought the jacket would protect my ribs from getting smashed too in case of a hard op. which is a nice bonus protection.

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if u jump a a navigator 190 and your main problem is the landing maybe u have to think to buy some good ankle protector boots like http://www.crispi.it/home_uk.php

how big is the landing area on your home dropzone? any chance to hit some obstacles? with a navigator (unless u do some very violent moves just before landing) your first contact (i talk about hard landings) will be with your feet and the ankle is the one you really want to be protected first.

P.S. anyone heard about broken ribs at hard opening?

stay safe


-------------------------
"jump, have fun, pull"

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That body armour would have probably helped Sean, base 621. His rib cut his aorta and killed him, the rib protector may have prevented this...or maybe not.

George
http://georgechurchill.blogspot.com

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When I first saw Dainese Armour on Slim it made so much sense. I immediately thought of my very close friend, Joe Shaw (BASE fatal.#28). Joe responded slowly/inadequately to a slowly turning canopy resulting in a cliff-strike against an outcropping of rock breaking his rib and puncturing a lung. He died at the bottom from drowning in his blood-filled lung. This was his only injury. Had he had the chest protection offered by these Dainese units he'd probably still be drinking beer with me today.

Slim told me first-hand that his Dainese saved his back on his infamous cliff-strike south of Sydney. Whilst he completely shattered his pelvis and femur his back was saved from the back-protector (which Slim says was split in two from the impact).

I always wear this armour on any cliff jumps that are underhung or slider-down as the protection that it gives on cliff-strike is huge. I only use it if I think object-strike is a possibility.

Some things to consider:

* The back-protector places the container a distance from your back and therefore placed the BOC in a different spot to what I'm used to. I sometimes remove it when I just want chest and limb protection.

* The back-protector is outwardly curved (convex). This results in a high-point in the centre of the pack-tray and (in my opinion) can increase the chance of the canopy to roll slightly to one side as the last fold (bottom) of the canopy is extracted from the pack-tray. I don't have enough jumps to formulate any field data to support this - this is just seems obvious.

* There are snags galore on these Dainese units. I always wear a long-sleeved top over the entire thing. I've seen jumpers use these without anything over them and thay look like snag-city, particularly when going HH. Also make sure the bottom of the back-protector is tucked into your pants and not exposed as a bridle caught under here via a lazy pitch or aerial will likely not release in anytime soon.

* It's hot and cumbersome to wear and hike with. Gear-up time is geatly increased and you have more to carry when hiking out.

* Whilst the shoulder cups do restrict your upward reach when wearing the rig on the ground, it isn't a problem when I'm suspended in the harness as the webbing/yoke is lifted off the shoulders somewhat allowing free movement.

g.
"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

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P.S. anyone heard about broken ribs at hard opening?



i've heard of skydivers that have had broken femurs (broke the 'head' (the ball part that lives in your pelvis) off):(;also there have been broken necks - so i'm sure someone has had broken ribs on a hard opening

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I'm sure you've meant NAV200. That's the smallest one from navigator family. If you look in the NAV200 charts, the MAXIMUM weight for students is 130 pounds. With gear you have around 171 pounds.

Move up in the charts. I can tell you that Nav260 it's a lot more easier to land than NAV200.

In flare NAV200 levels out when your hands are at hip level. Nav260 levels out a bit lower than shoulder level and you can squeeze 2 flares out of NAV260.

Edit: spelling.
Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

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Out of laziness, here is one post
replying to several statements above.


think they could help prevent broken ribs too?
I do not own one of these but from looking at the picture
and experience with chest protectors in other sports, yes
the armor looks like it would protect your ribs from front
and rear, but not from the sides.


armor will come handy in case of a PLF
Sure, but properly performing a good PLF should help
you more than the padding. Practice them often.
The movement should be smooth and fluid.


if you are doing 10-15 jumps for a day
I think if this guy was getting that kind of experience
he would not need body armor :P


any canopy can give hard openings
True. I have hammered myself several times and
almost all of them were my errors. 2 Examples:
used regular rubber bands instead of micro on my
first canopy and only 18 months ago I took a BASE
canopy out of a cessna slider down.B|:S
Practice packing, have someone else watch and
give you input.


good ankle protector boots
Good suggestion. The kind of injuries more commonly
seen from landings are damage to the legs and tail bone,
not so much the ribs.


anyone heard about broken ribs from hard opening
I have had broken ribs but never from a parachute, kind of
hard to imagine that. However, I do remember hearing a
story once about a female jumper suffering chest damage
from a severe opening.


In flare NAV200 levels out when your hands are at hip level
If this is working for you bro then cool, but honestly this is
not accurate. The steering lines on any parachute can be
adjusted to length by placement of the toggle plus risers
come in different lenghts. Not everyone's arms are the
same length. And to top it all off, the force of the wind
would affect the amount of input needed for a tip toe;)
Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

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armor will come handy in case of a PLF
Sure, but properly performing a good PLF should help
you more than the padding. Practice them often.
The movement should be smooth and fluid.



I've got a 40' PLF from a collapse--with bodyarmor--that says otherwise. I got my feet back under me and PLF'd, severely bruising both heels and breaking a big toe, but then took an enormous hit of impact on my back before bouncing, flipping forward and sitting up wondering why I wasn't in more pain. No matter how good that PLF was, I'd have been fucked royally without a spine protector and proper boots.

Body armor is not a substitute for skill, but in certain circumstances, it adds a level of protection for when you still do things right and end up fucked.

-C.

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Was the collapse and subsequent fall from 40 feet
following a skydive or a BASE jump? Either way I'm
real glad you are alright.

Since the original post was by a newbie skydiver worried
about hard openings and landings, my reply was kinda of
skewed towards him.

After the stuff I saw at the Perrine Memorial day 2006
I totally understand the value in wearing good protective
equipment. As it has been said:Pad Up, Pound In
Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

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I want to use it for skydiving

Do you wear a helmet to check the mail?

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After a year of intensive research I've come up with a bright new idea to the "pad up, pound in" idea, it's called "pad up tip-toe in" ;):P

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

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I don't know what the people at the DZ will think when they see me skydiving with bodyarmor but hey, fuck it!, most people are so stupid they prefer fashion over safety and it's been proven again and again, damn...bill booth was right!



Different people accept different amounts of risk, it doesn't make their decision right or wrong and it doesn't make them stupid.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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Don't forget to schlare the tarp before you pound in.

Yes canopies can open hard, but with proper packing and body position most modern canopies will open softly most of the time. Openings hard enough to damage gear or the jumper are rare unless a major error was made.

http://www.crmojo.com/adobepdf/protection.pdf

"Dress for the crash not for the ride."

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Different people accept different amounts of risk, it doesn't make their decision right or wrong and it doesn't make them stupid.



You didn't catch my point, I said most people are stupid because they choose fashion over safety not because of wearing body armor or not, there have been a lot of inventions over the years that can improve safety but people won't buy it because it doesn't look cool. that's what I meant. (i.e: buying mini 3-rings for the release system instead of bigger rings, choosing something over other just because of smaller packing volume)

BTW I also bought myself a pair of dainese protection shorts, they don't do much but hey something is something. Too bad I couldn't find the pants with knee protectors already added.

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You didn't catch my point, I said most people are stupid because they choose fashion over safety not because of wearing body armor or not, there have been a lot of inventions over the years that can improve safety but people won't buy it because it doesn't look cool. that's what I meant. (i.e: buying mini 3-rings for the release system instead of bigger rings, choosing something over other just because of smaller packing volume)



You didn't catch my point:

Different people accept different amounts of risk, it doesn't make their decision right or wrong and it doesn't make them stupid.

PS: Do you know the difference between Standard and Mini 3-Rings?
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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With mini-3-rings there has to be a superior pull force on the cutaway cable by the jumper in order to breakaway, that can be a problem if you are spinning fast with line twists, can you imagine all the forces working on the system, cable, housings, etc? you do the math.

With standard 3-rings you don't have to pull with as much force as with mini to cutaway, that in my book is good for you. that's why I will keep jumping standard and won't get fancy with my gear, maybe change the color of the rig/canopy and that's it. I just don't care if it looks cool or not as long as I'm having fun which is all that matters.

People can do whatever they want with their gear I don't care, I just call the ones who keep fashion over safety in their standard stupid because that's the only way they can be described, if you put yourself in danger that's completely ok, no problem, we are all doing it by jumping out of a plane/cliff/whatever, it was your decision and everybody must respect that, just don't be a danger to others too.

This makes me remember that TI in Chicagoland skydiving(?) who
kept doing stupid stuff for the video like sitflying to the side of the passenger, and with the connections points completely loose. There's a thread in the Instructors forum I think.

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Different people accept different amounts of risk, it doesn't make their decision right or wrong and it doesn't make them stupid.



You didn't catch my point, I said most people are stupid because they choose fashion over safety not because of wearing body armor or not, there have been a lot of inventions over the years that can improve safety but people won't buy it because it doesn't look cool. that's what I meant. (i.e: buying mini 3-rings for the release system instead of bigger rings, choosing something over other just because of smaller packing volume)

BTW I also bought myself a pair of dainese protection shorts, they don't do much but hey something is something. Too bad I couldn't find the pants with knee protectors already added.



Mini3-rings isn`t less safer than large one...and there is no wrong too choose accessories who make a rig more slimmer/lighter/ aerodynamic...every new rig you buy now is safe..

if you mostly doing slider off/sub-terminal jump...all this accessories is no use(my meaning)..
but if you jump lots off bigwalls (tracking/wingsuit) a slim rig can help you allot too perform better flight..
and the hike will be easier..

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