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jimmyh

Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

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OK
This is the third time I TRY to write something here. Everytime I wrote a loooong post and I deleted before posting it. Then went and do the same TRYING to PM NickDG. Wrote a looong PM, and delete before sending it.
What Im saying is that I cant find words to express my disappointment. I mean, u guys have discussed this several times before, and you all agreed and know what happened. The BFL stayed...

:::BREAK::::P

Now a girl that doesnt gives a fuck and her husband that cant accept the last entry decided to care......(6 dots)

Yea I better stop typing again, cuz Im not here looking for enemies. Im here to filter the good info (and sometimes laugh at the soap opera, i miss magot). The BFL was good info. Had more probablility of doing good to the sport than bikes hitting A's.
This sucks. At least I had the chance to read it 1000 times and learnt a little. Not only about death, also about how people lived. Yea but who cares? like sum1 says, this is hopeless.
:S[:/]:|:(


edited the Re: thing, cuz it was not a reply to anyone
HISPA #93
DS #419.5


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Nick,

thanks for the List.
it was your decision to create it. only you can decide to remove it.

to the naysayers...
what better memorial to the fallen than to learn from their mistakes? why let them die in vain?

heck if I die jumping, let me be the last one to make that particular mistake!
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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I hardly ever post is this forum but would just like to say:

Although I never fully read the list I did read parts of it. It's one of the reasons why even after 2 jumps at Bridge Day I'm still not sure if I want to become a BASE jumper. For me, right now, I'm not sure the reward is worth the risk. [:/]

I hope you don't mind but I went to google cache to save my own copy off. I want it available to me to read fully if I ever do decide to get into BASE. :)
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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(chime) How 'bout a list of "ONLY NAMES"? And a site with "NO NAMES" just how the death occoured?

For example...A BASE jumper with ### of BASE jumps had an uneventfull exit and freefall/track from an(a) B, A, S, E. during the deployment of the PC etc,etc,etc,etc?

(/chime)



How 'bout those that choose to jump of fixed objects with parachutes stop being EMO pansies who can't deal with their friends being talked about after their death.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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This sucks. I want the list.



Here you go.

Save a copy now, and keep it updated yourself. It's a lot of work to do something like that, and while I'm grateful Nick has taken on such a thankless task all this time, and I personally wish he was continuing, I understand that it's taken a toll on him in many ways.

Each of us is free to continue his work however we like, provided we respect Nick's right to control his original words.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Thanks for the list Nick.

It was a major factor in me understanding BASE after a friend fucked himself up, and occasionally rereading it has made me understand that I'm not currently willing to accept the risks of becoming a regular BASE jumper.

Thanks for being strong on everyone else's behalf for so long.

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Something isn't right here. A very large majority of jumpers felt the list should stay, but you listened to a handfull of opponents (me being one of them) and yanked the list. Strange.

Quite simply, I objected to the present format of the list.
-Numbering the dead isn't helping our sport or our fallen friends.
-The big read "111" at the top of the page is indicitive of a fascination with death.
-The lack of statistics, such as listing the most common causes of BASE fatalities, reduces its educational value.
-The page, in its present form, causes more harm than good in my opinion. Have you read any recent BASE articles in newspapers that didn't refer to Nick's list?

As mentioned before, the educational value of the list is enormous. If the BFL could be cleaned up a bit, with the changes mentioned above, then I think it would be a valuable tool for new and old jumpers.

I think many of you place yourselves and the sport of BASE jumping on a pedestal. Yes, it's dangerous and people die. Yes, it takes a smart and level headed person to survive. But it ain't rocket science. The average Joe knows that BASE jumping is dangerous and 99.9999% of the public will never even consider trying it. The few people that enter our sport should be educated by qualified instructors or mentors - not solely by what they read on the internet.
(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

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Everyone of those jumpers on the list we can't see anymore was special.

It's been stated before and probably will be again...The problem with the list not being available to the general public, in a fashion that makes BASE seem dangerous, is that all the "young jumpers" that are researching or on the fence - thinking about getting into BASE - whether skydivers or wanna be BASErs will not be deterred by it, scarred by it, or scared by it... These are likely the types that shouldn't be in the sport in the first place. I know a number of people that have decided to NOT get into BASE because of it's inherent danger...triggered by all the dead and permanently injured people. The BFL kept that "image" of BASE alive.

One of the major problems with human beings is that they forget easily. IMHO - In a couple years a whole slew of new jumpers will be coming on the scene - as they do - and all the ones that didn't get a chance to read the BFL will be hucking off without hesitation and there will be more injuries and fatalities because of it.

Nick, you may have been depressed by it and just about at the end of your rope...and it was your choice, but it really sucks that a few nay sayers beat you down - especially the immature one that nobody believes should be jumping anyway...

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Over a week ago jokes were being made about the list, now it has been completely removed. I can't help but think that this is an emotional response because you got some negative comments about your list, between the Snoopdog topic and the death of a person who's influential friend suddenly realised he doesn't want his name on there. I hate it when people tell me what I'm thinking/feeling so my apologies if I'm out of line.

The list is now a .txt file on the odd harddrive. Hopefully they belong to future mentors in the sport. Thank you for keeping it up till now, I have a feeling it will resurface one day.

Edited to add:
Quote


Lets not disrespect Jimmy by bickering about him on dorkzone



I'd be very upset/angry if someone gave the impression that some list is more important than my friend's death. If you look at it that way, Nick made the right decision.

Take care

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Edited to add:

Quote


Lets not disrespect Jimmy by bickering about him on dorkzone



I'd be very upset/angry if someone gave the impression that some list is more important than my friend's death. If you look at it that way, Nick made the right decision.


personally, I think the list IS far more important than one persons feelings. or a group of people's feelings. since when are a few more important than the many? no single person is that important. get over your egos/hero-worship/whatever.

feel free to be angry/upset at me.

the list taught people. it helped prevent others from making the same mistake. it helps keep the jumpers from dying in vain.

if you can't deal with the ramifications surrounding death, well, maybe BASE is not for you. consider bowling instead.

death is a possibility on every jump. awareness of that fact should lead to a certain level of sobriety. if not, you should ask yourself if you are a statistic waiting to happen.

and instead of whining about Nick, why didn't someone create an alternative? make Nick's list unpopular by providing something better? building instead of destroying?

I've enjoyed BASE because it IS an expression of personal responsibility. it is an amazing, positive act. I don't see anything positive in the complaints surrounding the list. I don't see anything positive in the loss of this educational tool. it appears that the attackers have won.

what's next? reporting potential jumps to authorities to "preserve" sites? maybe those who complained ought to get jobs with NPS. they'd fit in there.
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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There are at least two sides to every issue. One may not agree with why and how the list disappeared, but they can try and understand.

If you like the list so much, turn it into something meaningful without numbers and without copying the original author's words and keep it offline (for now).

Edited to add. I also thought that leaked carnage vid could have been useful in the hands of the right people. But I wasn't the right people so I deleted it.

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I posted this on another topic but i think it is applicable:
I stated skydiving almost a year ago now (partly so as to get into BASE in the future) and whilst it will no doubt be a little while longer before i make my first jump (experience+money need to be weighed up) i've realised i've got all the time in the world and it's no rush. Whilst i did not start off with this view, this website and various others have been invaluable in helping me to to come to it. I spent a long time going over The List, and it helps to put things in perspective in a very raw way, but ghosting forums and websites like basewiki were also helpful.

The list was really helpful in making me 'slow down' and not be bothered about taking a mroe relaxed approach to getting into the sport as opposed to '150 jumps...i'm off'. I also thought it was a place that people used as somewhat of a memorial site and also a place to learn from other peoples mistakes (i doubt many people would have thought that much about packing a wet canopy before reading about it on places like the list>) but perhaps i have been wrong on both accounts.

I haven't read the whole forum, but people have talked about it sensationalising the sport, but really since when have BASE jumpers been bothered about the media? They do the same thing with skydiving and every other 'extreame' sport out there.
I can see that people are deeply hurt by the loss of a close friend and my condolences go out to all the friends and family of him, however i just hope that for whatever reasons they are protesting against The List, his passing is not one of them.
As i've said, i'm not a BASE jumper, so please tell my if i'm stepping out of line, but i'm just citing my views, and i thought that perhaps what i say might be helpful.

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One thing is for sure now Jimmy,

Your buddy will be remembered now as the catalyst for the grand theft of the history of base. I never knew the guy, but I doubt seriously that anyone would want to be responsible for this. Again I'm sorry that you lost someone important to you. However, I really can't believe Mr. rad, Mr. I don't give a fuck, Mr. Nothing matters to me is now Mr. boo hoo hoo. Poor me I lost my friend and now I have to lash out at the world. If it hurts, its because its suposed to. Its how its supposed to feel. Its the real world. Its BASE.

Don't give in to the softies Nick. BASE is hard and so are you!

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Nick, thanks for keeping the list for so long. I met you once years ago, and I think you are a stand up guy. FYI, I have printed it and it will always be a memorial to my friends who are on it, and NO ONE can change that. Blue Skies my brother.......

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Common sense says that if you rig or pack your gear wrong then you will probably die.

common sense would also tell you that if you fail to have a canopy above your head at a reasonable altitude you will also not survive.

common sense tells you that if you strike the object you just jumped from even if it is not your fault chances are you are not going to make it.




There was so much more information on the list. But thanx for your observations. [:/]


Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

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A couple of years ago my sister committed suicide, and I saw, and still see the comletely devastating effect that the death of child has on the parents.

No words can ever do justice to the absolute destruction of joy that the passing of a child, parent, spouse, can have on those left behind.

As BASE jumpers, we do not own the memories of these people. I keep the poem that was read at my sister's memorial in my locker at work and when I feel up to it, I re-read it sometimes.

If for learning, posterity, and the advancement of the sport, we need a list of the statistical circumstances that resuted in a fatality, which should be made public on the internet, great. Now that's an endeavor I would applaud.

But the list was in very bad taste and in dire need of reworking.

Can you imagine being the parent of a young man who died tragically looking at his name and number on a list, picture included of course, where the autor of the list, a man completely unknown to you, subtley implies that he was wrong for jumping in the conditions he chose to jump in and that those conditions likely provoked his death even though there were no eye witnesses with any experience that could confirm those, between the line, accusations?


Ya'll probably read Of Mice and Men in high school or college right? Sometimes you gotta decide to shoot your beloved old dog yourself before somebody else comes along and does it for you.

That's the decision Nick made, and i'm happy for him that he was able to do it.

Thanks Nick, and I'm sorry for your loss. Those who loved the BFL will always remember it with honor and respect.

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Can you imagine being the parent of a young man who died tragically looking at his name and number on a list...



Actually, if you read this thread there are several people posting who can imagine that much more clearly than you can. Did you read the post by Ms.Sofaking? Do you really think that the level of grief you feel for your friend can approach hers?
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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But the list was in very bad taste and in dire need of reworking.



nick if you ever bring your list back, don't change a thing. the list can't be everything to everybody so you have to please yourself.

jimmy, in the meantime maybe you, clair and jason can get to reworking it

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