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Andy_Copland

First BASE jump

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Now it is up to the responsible base jumpers to guide him not flame him



Is he an adult and does he have a brain?

IT IS UP TO HIM!!!!!!!!!!!! He's the guy that needs to make the decisions. He is the one who decides whether or not he wants to heed advice or just treat it with disdain. It is NOT up to others to make those decisions for him.

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Yes to both because i know of at least 2 base jumpers that did their first base jump 15 years ago before ever making a skydive so what is it



May I suggest that you start comparing the training programs and sequence of the thousands of people who did it right or at least made an attempt to pursue the sport in an appropriate manner.

Stop comparing with the low end of the bell curve. And stop justifying a persons actions based on a minority of events or people. This is not a court case where precedence is important. This is life where the health and wellbeing of YOU and/or your colleague is important.

Let me put it to you simply: pull your $^$&$%ing head out of the sand and make some effort at preserving life.

In the end, like your friend, this is your decision to make.

Fun will then follow naturally.

Good luck with it all.
Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

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> You’ve never had one?
——————————————————————————————
Not at the first BASE jump... :|

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

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In my opinion he rushed the FJC.. Hes youny and impatient. Now it is up to the responsible base jumpers to guide him not flame him



Getting in BASE in a less than ideal way and then expecting more experinced jumpers to guide him (your words , not his) sets a very dangerous precedent and terrible example for future people wanting to BASE jump.
ie ..
" hey look at this guy....he got looked after , all he had to do was do the first jump any old way and then the BASE community felt an obligation to take him into the fold.....so all I have to do is the same."

This has been debated plenty...logically and passionately on the UK boards plenty of times...with the conclusion that you pretty much had better have a mentor ( of some description) if you expect the UK community to 'welcome' you with 'open arms'...and that mentor (if they were half decent)certainly would not have approved of how Andy went about his first jump.
I didnt/dont have a 'mentor' on return from my FJC....but had a reasonable amount of time in BASE preparation ( about 2 years), my own gear and a 10 day FJC with a very reputable English jumper......and still had trouble initially on my return to the UK getting help....The help is there, but the further away you are off the accepted route into BASE....the harder/longer it atkes to get some.

Andy doesnt seem to have done any of the above.....and I think the more experienced jumpers here are just getting a little tired of people not preparing for a healthy BASE career but rather a 'hasty' BASE career.
One of the experinced UK guys said in a post...

"we owe you nothing......but its all there for you for the taking, if you enter it the right way"

At the time I thought that was a little arrogant.....but it isnt.

All Andy has done is one jump....his first....whilst it is a milestone.....its also nothing.....nothing magical happens to you on your first jump where experience and wisdom gets infused as soon as you step off, if you are lucky you remember how you felt before hand and how sweaty your hands were when you landed.

its Andy who decides his own fate here....sure he can come back to the UK...stick two fingers up and go jump things on his own and tell us all if things get burned ,its the fault of the experinced UK guys for not helping him whne he got back home ( despite them trying to help him when he was just interested)......but I think they have seen this quite a few times now, and wont be too bothered about it.
Or
He can go back to basics...maybe get on a reputable FJC if he still wants to get into it now...get his own gear....make some contacts back in the UK and go GC and go learn.

The next move isnt for the more 'experienced jumpers to help out'...thats been done to death here....no the next move is Andy's to make, no one elses.

(I'm not one of the experienced UK jumpers, but I annoyed a few on my return to the UK , so feel experienced enough in that area to reply to your post)

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No Stich, never jumped in Lubbock. I was an Austin boy back when nobody BASE jumped within a 4hr. radius. Except for Bill Grimm of course and I wasn't gonna take on that dude as a mentor, no offense Billy, but also no way.
"It takes a big man to cry, it takes an even bigger man to make that big man cry"

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In my opinion he rushed the FJC.. Hes youny and impatient. Now it is up to the responsible base jumpers to guide him not flame him


Yes, but good judgement is what helps people stay alive in this game - and stops you being a potential liability to those jumping with you. Good judgement was not shown here, through an action of Andy's own free will, even though he should have known better.

How do you think this is going to be viewed by those he may wish to jump with subsequently? Do you honestly believe that many will take the risk given that, due to the displayed eagerness, he might need rescuing?
--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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OK here's the score.

Potato did give me training, i saw him packing a BASE rig and went over to watch quietly in deep thought, all the stuff i had been reading over a year and a half started making even more sense as i watched the pack job (just for example the tailgate.)

I started asking questions and noticed he was doing honking big heel stows etc and wanted to know why.

After all this it took about a month for me to approach him and ask him to help me out.

I HAVE done my canopy drills and put a few jumps on a Fury 220, im current as all hell right now.

Im not an arrogant go lucky guy who thinks i wont get hurt or die. I'm very realistic about my mortality and i dont need to explain the fear to you guys, you know.

I sat at the bottom of the tower with my back the the fence practicing exits with potato saying "not good enough, not good enough, not good enough" before he was happy. I ran over everything in my head that i knew about canopy control and what to do in the event of an off heading opening.

Then i sat there for a good solid 5 minutes at the bottom of the Antenna looking up at the lights then the rig on the floor just battling to get my hands to pick the rig up and start climbing. I've never picked up such a heavy object as that rig.

All while tater said nothing and let me make my own choice and fight my own battle.

Taking a break on the climb i watched the sweat drip from my head down past a couple of lights and blowing in the little breeze there was.

The rest is something i cant describe in any words i know, you know what i mean.

When all is said i done i KNOW i took a bigger risk than is desirable, with choice of object, gear and general skydiving experience (or lack of.)

But i did it, its everything and nothing at the same time. Everything to me and nothing because its a single jump. But nothing you guys on this board can say can take away the single worst and best experience of my life thus far.

You guys slam Tater and i dont know about his history, but at the same time the guy said the most important thing to me which was "dont be afraid to back down, if it doesnt feel right listen to your body, it is not right."

I have read every post in this thread and only had to ignore a couple (ones offering no advice) and recieved and am thankful for the PM's i have had.

At the same time i dont understand where people get the idea that i want to go home and start jumping off random objects and be welcomed home.

Living, learning, listening, not regretting.

Andy
1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

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You guys slam Tater and i dont know about his history...



It was going well until this point. Regardless of how good/bad your instructor was - are you telling us that you would allow someone you don't really know, without any references, and using substandard gear (proper BASE gear is available!) to put you in a very dangerous situation?

I'm not trying to taking anything away from your experience, but I feel you would benefit from logically thinking about the series of events.
--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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Trying to untangle myth, flat out lies and truth from people you have never met is damn tough. I heard good things, i heard bad things and i heard down right laughable things.

Tater is a friend and i am also friends with a jumper who doesnt like the guy. All i could do was watch and make my own judgement. Tater is my friend and if that makes people take a dislike to me then they show lack of moral fiber.

So all i could do was make my own choice at that time.
1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

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So please, why didn't you take an FJC with someone who allows low jump nrs.

Thx

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As Tom said, i didnt go there to BASE. I went to skydive and found an opportunity.
1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

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Tater is my friend and if that makes people take a dislike to me then they show lack of moral fiber.



The rhetoric that people fling around on these forums is downright scary. If you have some time, I'd love to see a more cohesive argument for what you just wrote.

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Im not narrow minded enough to take sides when it comes to two people arguing if i find good in both. I'd rather keep them both as friends ad keep the fuck out of the politics. Why make life so fucking complicated? I'd rather not waste my life with such ridiculous bullshit like choosing sides in a handbag fight.
1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

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But nothing you guys on this board can say can take away the single worst and best experience of my life thus far.



as for myself, I'm NOT trying to take anything from you. I can't.

I can attempt to influence you, and the others who would think it's the shizzle to follow your path. it's not. it is more likely to lead to the harsh realities of the sport.

your more recent posts display a calmer, more thoughtful side. now that's the shizzle! use those traits to keep yourself upright!
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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You do know that most AM towers are transmitting through out the whole tower. And that it is a possibility to ground yourself and get a nice shock while getting on the ladder. Just an FYI.
As for all of the negative comments on this thread; just sit back and laugh. We are not gods because we BASE. We are just people like anyone else, with the will to live in an extreme way. I do recommend to keep working on your canopy skills, practice exits, drills on 'what if' in your head over and over. Do your homework, examine each site on your own terms whether you are with someone that has jumped it or not. Jump for yourself and don't try to impress anyone with a camera on there head. Enjoy, welcome, and keep it real.
________________________________________
"We make our own rules, We pave our own paths, We write our own destinies, We 'live' our own lives"
________________________________________

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I take it from what I read earlier in the thread, that this was an "outside" climb??
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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You UK guys...

I understand your emotional responses and why you spoke out the way you did. Hell, I would be screaming too at anyone doing a bandit skydive for the first one. (the bandit skydive and the subsequent screaming have both happened).

But please, don't lock Andy out because of his first experience. I am 100% positive that he will go back to the UK and, if he wants to continue B.A.S.E. jumping, will seek out proper training and mentorship. I hope he gets it from you very experienced guys.

Continued flaming is counter-productive at this point. Everything has been said already...multiple times.

Andy is a friend and I want him to enjoy the thrill of all parachuting activities that he so desires. I want him to be as safe as possible and live to a ripe old age. I want to be receiving letters from him when he is 90 years old telling me what excting things he has been doing.

He's had his cussing out. And he knows. Now is the time to extend a helping hand, not turn your back.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Yep, outside climb.
1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

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PUSSY!!!:P:P

Of course your rock climbing sucks so bad I'd expect nothing less.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

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Keep banging on the keys Billy, my climbing is sweet :D

Hows Dan getting on with skydiving anyway?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

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You UK guys...

Don't you go lumping me in with those guys.
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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Tater is a friend and i am also friends with a jumper who doesnt like the guy. All i could do was watch and make my own judgement. Tater is my friend and if that makes people take a dislike to me then they show lack of moral fiber.

So all i could do was make my own choice at that time.



Hey man glad all went well :)Did you talk to any of the other "real" locals (i'm assuming youre at zhills)
when i met tater a few months back at the bar he could only talk smack about the other FJC's out there and offered to take me out. then he took me out to his van and had me look at his "BASE" gear.....well i'll leave it at that. I have made my only (3) base jumps VERY stupidly (this is looking back) at the time I was fucking slap happy for doing it. now i can see how ignorant i was.:$
Now I wont start again untill I take a FJC and hook up with all of the great mentors we have here.
again....
dude, i'm glad all worked out and I can still feel that buzz from the first one :)
HAVE FUN...
...JUST DONT DIE

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You UK guys...

Don't you go lumping me in with those guys.


No way, dude! You're in a class all your own!
:D:D:P
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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If you done something you felt was right at the time and had someone call you a twat how would you feel?


hmm i would look at my self,what did i wrong?

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especially someone you considered a friend.


ah got it someone who cares about me see that im hurting or killing myself.. Perhaps i should step back and look at what ive done and reevaluate if its a good idea what im doing right now..

well thats usaly how i do it.. It saved me once.. and often people were right..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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You guys sure criticize PotatoeHead alot. He's actually not that irrational. I've been with him a few times. I've seen him climb down when he didn't feel right about the situation and I've seen him jump and land his $10 rig without incident when others weren't quite so lucky jumping BASE specific gear.

I will admit he is a little different and he's proud of his $10 rig. I don't know of anyone he's hurt or killed and it's not like he's out advertising a FJC, so get off his ass!

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