First BASE jump

[TVPB 0]

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i personally advised andy against jumping.

Yet you defend the way he did the jump. I don't get it??? Up front you had doubts. In hindsight you defend his outcome despite it being life threatening and VERY poorly executed.

Broken bridles are VERY SERIOUS problems. They only happen when gross errors are made. There is a wealth of information available to EVERYONE that would prevent this from happening.

If the guy can afford to travel, he can afford gear and appropriate mentoring. Obviously his priorities are a little different to other people.l

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by his numbers he's a lot more current than some of us back home. He'll learn and fast.

Currency is great. But it is worth nothing with a poor attitude!

If he had of started with something like: "First jump. I feel great. But this happened and I messed up. Learned from that and will not repeat. Should have taken advise. etc" - I think most people would have had a different opinion of him.


What do you think Andy???

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[Han-Solo 0]

Don't know much about the AM part, but over here "low" guyed towers are commonly used as first time objects. With the right wind conditions they are regarded as rather safe objects. My first was a 135m (~400ft), with three sectors. I know you're quite into the bridges over there, but alternative approaches can work aswell. But then again it's common to start from bigwalls here...
The pca part sounds strange though. Why not take a second, handheld?

The perfect/safest approach to base is easy to outline, but for many the reality may be a compromise (risk, available objects, time, cost, contacts, etc.). Very few of us have tried the ideal version.

[Rauk 0]

"The bridle ripped clean off". That is a fact, correct? Well, by all means, if you know what happened, then, please, enlighten us. Anyway you look at it, there is no good reason for a bridle to "accidentally" rip clean off of the system. No matter how it happened. Oh, and for your information, if anyone was flamed by me, it was this "potatohead", and I think he deserves a little heat for almost getting someone killed. I PM'd Andy and gave him constructive criticism, not flames. I think (or hope at least) that he will take something positive from all of this, so don't be so defensive. I have met five people since I started BASE jumping three and a half years ago who are now on Nick's list. There is no reason for anyone to stand here and let Andy become a statistic when all he needs is a little guidance. Can't you see from at least Tom's posts alone that people are trying to bring something constructive out of this?
Adam
921

[Rauk 0]

"You are jumping to conclusions"

Looks to me from the video that the bridle did in fact rip off of the canopy and was still tethered (or wrapped to) the antenna.

[TomAiello 25]

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Looks to me from the video that the bridle did in fact rip off of the canopy and was still tethered (or wrapped to) the antenna.

The video that I posted in the other thread was not of the jump being discussed in this thread. It was a different jump with a similar issue. The jump in that case was static line (not PCA) was from a freestander (not a guyed tower) and was done by an experienced jumper (not a student).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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If the guy can afford to travel, he can afford gear and appropriate mentoring. Obviously his priorities are a little different to other people.

In Andy's defense, he did initially plan to buy BASE gear and travel to take a First Jump Course.

We (that being myself and several UK jumper, but if you want to blame someone blame me) convinced him that he would be better off doing more skydiving, which is why he went on this skydiving trip, rather than coming to take a BASE course.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[VincentVL. 0]

So the question is: why didn't you take a FJC with someone equally skilled but less picky?

[AndrewKarnowski 0]

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Don't know much about the AM part, but over here "low" guyed towers are commonly used as first time objects. With the right wind conditions they are regarded as rather safe objects.

AM info from mr.bazil's website:

http://www.chrisbazil.com/am.htm

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If you find other means to access the antenna tower, while you are on the
tower you are electrically charged and part of the transmitter. Unlike other
transmit towers where you need to worry about your gear when in close proximity
to a transmit device, the tower is the device. Any metallic objects on your person
(links, 3 rings, etc.) or in your person (dental fillings, metal plates, screws)
are heating up throughout your stay and unseen damage may occur.
I'm thinking, "NOT GOOD".

I personally feel that there is no good reason to access this tower.
There will be several more desirable towers within a few square miles.
However, if you feel you absolutely have to, more POWER to you. Literally!

"Low" Guyed: I don't have any resources that state it, but thinking about it logically... on lower guyed towers, the guyed wires are going to be closer together then on taller towers. I.E. there are some 1000+ guyed towers you can fly through guyed wires without injury, which decreases the risk.

On lower towers the guyed wires become an effective "wall" giving you 120 degrees of flying space. as compared to a bridge where you have 360 degrees.

[Rauk 0]

Oh, my mistake. Is there video of this jump?

[stitch 0]

Congrats Andy. Glad you're OK.

Although 'Tater is a friend, get proper gear before you do it again.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[stitch 0]

Hey, I met your brother-in-law that is about to start AFF out here in Texas, though I can't remember his name.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[Calvin19 0]

where is this video of the bridal connection ripping off? I re-read this thread, couldnt find it.

is it true that the Connection is designed to tear at 400lbs? who picked that number? is it tested? i had no idea about that. I looked at my gear, and it lookes a bit stronger than 400lbs.

-SPACE-

[AndrewKarnowski 0]

i said 400 because i knew it was at least that...

i vaguely remember there being a 50 in the number...

a better guess would be 450 or 550... but don't quote me on that.

[AndrewKarnowski 0]

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where is this video of the bridal connection ripping off? I re-read this thread, couldnt find it.

it's in the "serious" version of this thread

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=5692

[TomAiello 25]

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Is it true that the Connection is designed to tear at 400lbs? who picked that number? is it tested? i had no idea about that. I looked at my gear, and it lookes a bit stronger than 400lbs.

It probably depends on the make of the canopy, but I've definitely talked with canopy manufacturers who told me that the bridle attachment was purposefully engineered to tear away before other parts of the canopy broke off, in order to make it possible to do a "Karnowski" (that's the new official name of the unpacked jump where you hang from the bridle at line stretch, then either cut off or tear away the bridle and/or attachment to get the canopy flying).

I believe this was originally intended for skydiving (in case the PC/bridle wrapped the tail of the aircraft) but I could be wrong.

I'll agree with you that the bridle attachment on my Apex canopies (especially the multi equipped canopies) looks _a lot_ stronger than 400 pounds.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[AndrewKarnowski 0]

most of the ones i've seen are square, here's from my mojo.

i called them load bearing seams, because it sounded right... but it's prolly not.

[Calvin19 0]

I got a PM from a very reputable manufacturer, stating it at at least 550lbs,

i must have mis-read your post andrew, sorry.

it does make sense for the attatchment to tear away before you rip the topskin off the canopy.

thanks.

[diablopilot 2]

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Is it thge training he recieved that was sketchy or the fact he did a base jump with his amount of jumps

Yes.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skinnyshrek 0]

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Is it thge training he recieved that was sketchy or the fact he did a base jump with his amount of jumps

Yes.

Yes to both because i know of at least 2 base jumpers that did their first base jump 15 years ago before ever making a skydive so what is it

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[diablopilot 2]

I know 300 jump wonders loading canopies at 2.5+

Doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do either.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[AndrewKarnowski 0]

i'm just curious...

who doesn't think this was unreasonably sketchy, and why?

...or are these other people just playing devil's advocate?

[skinnyshrek 0]

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I know 300 jump wonders loading canopies at 2.5+

Doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do either.

No but andy took advice from some very respectable base jumpers what he didnt do was do that with a respectable base jumper. In my opinion he rushed the FJC.. Hes youny and impatient. Now it is up to the responsible base jumpers to guide him not flame him

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[diablopilot 2]

I'll bet if you could see the contents of his PM mailbox, you might see there is a lot of "guidence" happening.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skinnyshrek 0]

lol i really hope so.. hes young and impatient.lol let the right people help him out in my opinion a 400ft antenna 1st jump is not the riught guiddance he needss.lol

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[stitch 0]

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The difference was, I had no mentors available in my part of Texas and internet guidance was not in existence yet.

Are you the guy that flicked the 250' grain elevator in Lubbock some years back.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"